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Last post 21 years ago by tarheel4lyf. 41 replies replies.
Send her away....
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tarheel4lyf Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Feb 27 2003, 1:36 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/women/news/2003/02/23/vet_protest_ap/

This girl is protesting for only she knows what. The statement she gave made no sense to me. She doesn't agree with the Iraq crisis, and doesn't like our past history. Yet, she takes full advantage of the freedoms that the Flag symbolizes, such as going to the college of her choice, playing college sports, etc. This kind of person makes me sick to my stomach.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 12:25 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
my kids were taught not to stand when the teacher was leading the class in a prayer. were they not entitled to attend school?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 3:04 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
I can only imagine the embarassment they must've felt at obeying your orders!

Looks like they turned out ok, still time for you!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 3:28 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
DrMaddVibe

no, they were confident in themselves and didn't feel threatened or influenced by others, but neither did they feel in any way superior. they kept their own counsel.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 3:59 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Prayer is a totally separate issue.
plabonte Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 4:23 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Tar is right Ric. Freedom of religion is not the issue here. If she feels that strongly then she can pack up her tampoons and get the hell out of here.
xrundog Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 5:05 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
There is a little knee-jerk conservatism going on here. I was at a basketball game once with my Father-in-law. There was a guy who did not stand for the anthem. Father-in-law said "Don't you want to do something about that?" (me being Navy). I said "Great thing about this country is you can do or not do as you damn well please." "And I defend his right not to do it." I didn't agree with him. But where does it say I have to? Or vice versa. I'll say it again: More freedom, not less!
Sonny_LSU Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 5:21 AM EST
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
What disheartens me most about these people is that in a moment in time a man bled to death loving and supporting the very flag she shamefully turns away from......she is protesting the system, I know that, but there is a better time and place to do so.
When I say the pledge my heart goes out to every soldier who has gravely suffered what the rest of us couldn't even imagine in a nightmare, and they did it for this country. They deserve much more than what this snot-nose is giving them!!
jd1 Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 6:22 AM EST
Joined: 02-14-2001
Posts: 3,118
It's a very difficult concept for some people to grasp. Having the freedom to bash your country's ideologies, but not realizing that if...if someone was not their to defend that freedom, you wouldn't have it to bash. I just accept they don't understand. Hearing the national anthem is very very special to me; I can visualize someone losing their life for me, whether right or wrong in whomever's eyes; they lost their life so that we can have these freedoms we take for granted every day. Believe it...if another country knew we would not fight for freedom and what we have in this country, we'd be so worse off freedom would only be a concept and dream. Whoa, fell off my soapbox and dropped me eye patch! arrghh!
plabonte Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 6:49 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Very intereesting perspective X. One I had not considered.

But in the US we are not free to do as we please. We aren't free to not pay taxes, we aren't free to kill people at will, we aren't free to burn someone's house. So sometimes more freedom isn't better.

If the flag presented was a war flag and she turned her back on it because she didn't believe in the war I could maybe see that. But the US flag stands for a lot more then a war with Iraq. By turning your back on it you are in effect saying I want nothing to do with this flag. And thus you are saying you want nothing to do with this Country. And I say if you dislike it that much leave. There are plenty of other countries to live in.
uncleb Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 6:57 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Sonny,

When IS the better place and time to do so?

To all,

I love perusing these boards and reading the opinions of all you out there. I learn a lot from all of you. I have never been the most politcal person or kept up as much as I probably should on local and world issues and I have enjoyed expanding my knowledge base indirectly through EVERYONE here (from Rick A. to Dr. M.)in the last 6 months or so.

But it AMAZES me how in one instance, some people can seem so enlightened and in the next instance, be some of the most narrow minded, pompous, bitter people I could ever come in contact with.

This country was founded on and has continued to stand on a person's freedom to voice their opinion on any subject, including what this country's (sp?) government, in their opinion, may or may not be doing wrong. They have the right to demonstate this in any manner they see fit as long as it is not illegal.

This young lady has some very strong beliefs and is expressing those beliefs in the most American way she can. Through her freedom of expression. Whether I agree with her or not, I am proud that she is an American.

BTW- The American Flag does not just represent all of the brave soldiers that have fought and died in this countries battles. I also represents all of the brave souls that have stood up for their beliefs, stood up against opression, stood up against injustice and just stood up and have been struck down for doing so.
jd1 Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 7:06 AM EST
Joined: 02-14-2001
Posts: 3,118
Very well put uncleb and it's through your type of post that I too learn something more and it will move me to think a little before just putting something down. The flag truly does stand for more than just someone defending this country.
plabonte Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 7:25 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Exactly the point Uncleb. The flag stands for more then just defending this Country. It stands for more then just a war with Iraq.

When she turns her back on the flag she is turning her back on EVERYTHING it stands for. And that I think is what upsets people and makes them give these knee jerk reactions.

xrundog Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 7:27 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
No we are not free to murder and burn and rape. That would be anarchy and I am not for that. I do believe there are a lot of unnecessary and redundant laws though. Plabonte that girl did not say what you THINK she said. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don't like what she did. I don't like flag burning. But it doesn't harm anyone. Laws against these things are against precisely what I believe the flag stands for. They are an unnecessary infringement on our liberties. Many people gripe about political correctness but when THEY are offended see nothing wrong with limiting others freedoms.
Sonny_LSU Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 7:51 AM EST
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
PUKE!

uncleb Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 7:54 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Sonny,

LMAO!
plabonte Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 8:11 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Oh I agree that we can't make it (and shouldn't make it) a law that you can't turn you back on a flag, burn it, etc. I'm only saying if she dislikes the flag and what it stands for so much she should move somewhere where she likes thier flag better better.

There are lots of things we are free to do which are morally wrong. If someone is going to jump from a building there isn't a law that says you have to try to talk them down. If your neighbors house is on fire there isn't a law that says you have to call the fire department. There isn't a law that says you have to tip a waitress. Somethings we do and don't do because we know that its the right thing to do or the wrong thing irregardless of law. This is one of those things. But that is just my opinion and if everyone shared my opinion I wouldn't have anyone to argue with to make the day go a little faster.
Charlie Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 9:43 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Anybody who does not respect and honor the American Flag is a suspect individual in my opinion. Send her ugly ass to Iraq and let her show disrespect for their rag of a flag and see what would happen to her.

Do not feed me this ACLU crap about it is her right to tarnish the image of Freedom. The men and women who died for our flag deserve more respect than this from that little bitch!

Charlie
SteveR@CigarBid Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 11-19-2002
Posts: 12,746
Freedom to have one's own beliefs is entirely different from the freedom to burn houses, not pay taxes, and kill a person. While I may not have the same beliefs as her, I don't feel she is doing anything wrong. Besides, who is she harming? Also, your opinion on how she feels about the flag may not be accurate.
xrundog Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 10:05 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Yes, it's an important distinction. People did not die for the flag. They died for what the flag represented to them. Today, what the flags represents is very subjective. The important thing is we get to say and demonstrate what it represents to us. To be a good American you don't have to be patriotic. And being patriotic doesn't mean you are a good American. Me? I get choked up during the Star Spangled Banner. When I look at the flag I am reminded of all the good things in this country. Maybe the guy next to me doesn't feel that way and is not afraid to show it. That's his RIGHT!
Tobasco Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

I know she has a right to do what she is doing. But in this case she should use another forum to make her point.

This is a team she is part of. She souldnt distract from what they are all there for, the game. She is taking the focus off the game and putting herself before her teamates. That is wrong.

I bet her team and coach now, have to talk more about her little protest, than the sport they are trying to compete in.

I would also wager, that she has no older family members that have fought for this countries military. So she has no veteran military role models to look up to in this matter. Thats just a guess.

Even the Politicians that are just as much against this war, as she is, would never do this to the flag! What makes her think she has more wisdom than them?

She does have the right, but that doesnt make her right. I have a right to my opinion too. This is my opinion of her, SHE SUCKS!

Mag

xrundog Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Feb 28 2003, 10:38 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Good point about the team and teammates Mag. Well said!
justforfun Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 8:22 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 797
I believe the solution to the problem is for her to remain in the locker room until the Pledge and/or the National Anthem, by those of us who truly believe in national support and allegiance, has completed. Then come out for the game. She's entitled to her opinions but I don't think her blatant disrespect (to those of us that do strongly believe in the symbolisms of this Country) should be accepted or tolerated.
monkeybong Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-20-2003
Posts: 22
I can't say that I know much about the girl in question here, I don't even know where she goes to college. I heard of the incident from me brother. I went to a liberal college and came into contact with many who had extreme ideologies. What I learned is that college age people are very impressionable and lets face it, don't have much of a clue about what happens outside of their small sphere, or what you might call the real world. But the beauty of this country is they do have the right to say or do as they choose, even if it tasteless. The fact is her behavior will likely lead people in the opposite direction that she is choosing. People like this are more funny than important, since her hypocrisy is so blatant. More than likely she is supported by the state to some degree, certainly the System provides her this arena to make her point. If she were truly radical she would not be playing basketball for any university. I think it is important to remember why we allow people to voice an opinion, and at the same time have the ability to call them fools, and reaffirm the reasons we live in this country, and continue to stand up for our flag. The US is not perfect, never will be, but I wouldn't live anywhere else, and I have had the freedom to travel quite a bit. Thanks for letting me vent.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
uncleb

my question has no hidden meaning or agenda.

does your use of the term "sonny" indicate your being a lot older then the guys you are posting to, or did i misread and you are using it as a name for someone specific.

i was proud to be, what i thought i was, the seniorist citizen in this group. am i no longer the elderist?



good
gooder
gooderist
tarheel4lyf Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 5:59 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Old people are cool.
usahog Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 6:29 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
No Comment.... Accept Your All Right!!!!

Hog

arkie_72015 Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 09-25-2001
Posts: 64
The wife and I went to the horse races at Hot Springs today,first time in about three years I was at an event in person when the National Anthem was played,Their was a large crowd today as it was a real crummy week in Arkansas - weather wise.Every one had cabin fever was ready to get out.When the National Anthem was played I was amazed that as far as I could see every one stood with their eyes toward our flag,Brought tears to this old farts eyes,Was worth every penny I lost today.
Tobasco Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
arkie

I know exactly how you feel. The National Anthem is very special to me also. I love hearing it.

Now, I dont know the feeling of losing every penny! Sorry! Hehe!

Mag
tailgater Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Mag is right. The Team and the School should insist she stop doing it. Unless they enjoy the media attention.
She is abusing the forum presented to her.
Apparently, many feel that she has the right to disrespect America, but we don't have the right to criticize her for doing it.
Her lack of appreciation deserves no accolades regarding her strength of conviction. Ignorance should never be celebrated.
But is must be tolerated.

uncleb Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Rick A,

I was replying directly to Sonny_LSU. It Think I would fall in the middle of the pack on the age scale in regards to those posting here.

B.
uncleb Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 9:22 PM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Tailgater,

I believe everyone has a right to criticize her for what she is doing. Goes to the whole point. My issue is with statements such as:

"she can pack up her tampoons and get the hell out of here."

"Send her ugly ass to Iraq..."

These are just personal attacks and have nothing to do with sound criticisms.

On the other hand, there have been some very good points made about the team concept and such that do have credence.
usahog Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 9:31 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Point Taken... now as I sit here enjoying a few beer's and have just accomplished my annual cpr refresher class... I view this Philosophically....
nowing seeing her face do this to something I hold dearly to my heart... I have two Options to take...
seeing her later in distress ... lets say as a choking victum and I am the only one to save her...

do I (A) proceed with the training I have and render her cpr and try and revive her calling 911

or (B) call 911 open up a 6 pack and wait and see how long it takes for the ambulance (sp) to arrive???

because isn't this America???

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Mar 1 2003, 9:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

your pure sense of humanity would force you to option 1 regardles where you lived.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Mar 2 2003, 5:03 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
start taking bets on how long it would take them to arrive.....THAT is America!!
Charlie Offline
#36 Posted: Sun, Mar 2 2003, 6:41 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
So Uncleb doesn't like my "send her ugly ass to Iraq", then I will restate it and say:

Send her to Iraq and let her try that sort of thing"

Yes, she has the right to object to what we are doing. No, she should not do it with her teammates! I agree with Tailgater she should stay in locker room but will not gain the attention she is seeking.

Charlie
tarheel4lyf Offline
#37 Posted: Sun, Mar 2 2003, 7:19 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
ô¿ô


Amen...
tailgater Offline
#38 Posted: Sun, Mar 2 2003, 8:09 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Solution:
The next venue she plays at should surround her in American Flags. She'll have no where to turn. Which Ironically is exactly what her situation would be if not for the America which that very Flag symbolizes...
tarheel4lyf Offline
#39 Posted: Sun, Mar 2 2003, 8:21 AM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
I wish I could be there......
Sonny_LSU Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Mar 3 2003, 6:14 AM EST
Joined: 11-21-2002
Posts: 1,835
People like this young "lady" make my butt itch.
RDC Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Mar 3 2003, 11:25 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
I saw this story on the news a few days ago. They indicated this girl wasn't even from the US and that he schooling is for what ever reason and somewhow being payed for by the US Government.

They report mentioned that it was interesting that she turned her back on the flag but not the money she is receiving from the US Government.
Hmmmmmmm
tarheel4lyf Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Mar 3 2003, 12:34 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Actually, I heard that she is from NY, somewhere around there. Not NYC, though.
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