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Last post 21 years ago by usahog. 28 replies replies.
Veterans for Peace Statement
jdrabinski Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
My name is [name deleted]. 38 years ago our country sent its soldiers to the Republic of Vietnam for the expressed purpose of controlling Communist aggression and protecting the young Democracy of South Vietnam.

I was 20 years old and was so patriotic that my perspiration was red, white and blue. In the community where I grew up, most of the adult men - and all who would aspire to public office - were veterans. My father was stationed on the US Arizona prior to his discharge in the summer of 1941. He re-enlisted after war broke out and was at war when I was born.

It seemed only natural that I, a very young and naïve but fiercely patriotic man, would volunteer for the military, and I did. I enlisted in the Army in 1965, was the outstanding graduate of my basic training class, volunteered for both the Infantry and for Airborne training and found myself in Vietnam, as an infantryman, by early 1966. By mid-tour I was sent back to the States to attend Officer Candidate School, where I was, again, an Outstanding Graduate and soon found myself back in Vietnam as an Infantry Platoon Leader.

My son was born during that tour, when I was at war, making it two generations.

Coming of age at that very time were four other men: Larry Craig, Mike Crapo, Mike Simpson and Butch Otter [Senators and Reps. from Idaho]. They saw their duty somewhat differently than I saw mine, and they responded to their country's needs with different choices and different actions.

I mention this, not to question their patriotism, not to judge their decisions and not to place my actions as superior to theirs. I mention this only to highlight that during the 1960s I learned some things they simply did not learn. I learned what war really is. And I want to share a bit of that today, so their thinking and the decisions they make about the war we are moving toward with Iraq will be informed by what I now know.

War is full of physical deprivation. The soldier or marine at war will be more physically miserable than you can imagine - worse than any hunting trip gone bad or any training they may have done for war. Look at any pictures of soldiers at war and you will see how miserable they are. So, the first lesson of war is that you can be thirstier, hungrier and more bone tired than you could ever imagine.

War is full of the violation of values the individual holds dear. This may be news to some of you, but there can be no war without war crimes. In war, all the young man has learned about protecting women and children and the aged and infirm, will be violated. Every combat soldier knows this - he has heard about instances, he has witnessed instances or he has participated in incidences of violence against weak and vulnerable people. The assumption that, like in the movies, a combat soldier is able of turning his anger on and off at the appropriate time, is sorely flawed. The violation of core, learned values is as much a part of war as the cold, the mud, the sand and the heat.


In war, the soldier will suffer great loss. Sooner of later, if he is not gravely wounded or killed himself, the combat soldier will hold in his arms a man he loves in a place where he has never loved another. And he will hold that friend in his arms as his hopes, dreams, ambitions and life flow out of him with his blood. The loss of the life of someone the soldier cares deeply about is a predictable part of war.

So the soldier suffers physical deprivation, the violation of values and ideals and the loss of close and intimate friends. The feelings that grow in the soul of a soldier, from these experiences combine agony and rage. The result is a stone - a stone of grief - large for some and smaller for others, but a stone of grief that each and every combat soldier carries in the center of his being for the rest of his life.

Butch Otter, Mike Simpson, Mike Crapo and Larry Craig, I want you to understand what that grief feels like, but for a person like me, mere words are incapable of describing that pain.

But I have an idea of how you might grow in understanding the pain of war in the soul of the warrior. Not far from where you each work is the Vietnam Memorial. I suggest you sit beside it early some morning, before first light, or late at night when it is dark. The combat veteran will not be at the Wall with his family or his friends - he will come alone. He will be the man who walks slowly down the ramp, with his eyes on the ground. If you could see his face you would note that the tears have already begun. When he reaches the center of the Wall, he will stop and his shoulders will shake as sobbing takes over his body. He may fall on his knees in front of the names of his fallen brothers and strike the sidewalk with his fists.

If - Larry Craig, Butch Otter, Mike Simpson and Mike Crapo - that old soldier could see you there and if he could know your position of leadership and the war you are preparing to unleash, a war plan that now divides our country and our world, he would turn toward you with a very simple message:

Don't do it!

Please don't do it!

Oh, God, don't let this happen again!

In Vietnam, armed combat was full of heroism. By heroism, I mean when a person overrides his instincts for personal safety and acts, instead, to protect a comrade or to defeat his adversary. Heroism came in 2 sizes, small heroism and big heroism. Small heroism included looking over the front of your weapon and pulling the trigger, heroic because lifting your head up when being shot at is contrary to every instinct telling you to keep your head down; pulling the trigger because, somewhere in his consciousness the soldier knows that his adversary is just like him - with a family, with friends and with a life. Big heroism included putting yourself in a much more dangerous position, moving over the ground under fire, again, to protect a comrade or to win a fight.

Larry Craig, Butch Otter, Mike Simpson and Mike Crapo - you decided, long ago, when you were boys, not to put yourself in a position that called for this kind of heroism. Again, I am not critical of your personal decisions. But I am asking for some personal heroism now.

All of your political instincts call for you to be supportive of this war the Bush administration seems determined to initiate. He is your president, your party leader and he manages the distribution of power and influence in Congress. Moreover, this war is supported by many of the people and groups you look to for political support. Acting contrary to their preferences could put your position, your reputation and your career at risk.

But it is heroism I am asking for: Little heroism, such as speaking in small meetings and caucuses for peaceful solutions to this conflict; Sharing your wishes for restraint with others in your party, your staff and your state. Big heroism, though less likely, would be wonderful: speaking against the war on the floor of congress or in a letter to the President.

Larry Craig, Mike Crapo, Mike Simpson and Butch Otter, our country asks soldiers for heroism with regularity - in my lifetime and before. We have consistently delivered in that request. Today I am asking you to pay the combat veteran back with some heroism of your own. Please, put down the drums of war and join us in working for peace.


THL Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 3,044
What? Did this guy get his nuts shot off in Nam? I also am a Viet Nam vet who hasn't made up his mind yet about this war. This whiney crybaby crap does nothing to persuade me against it. Every single person in our military enlisted knowing that they might be asked to give their life. This argument is against every war not this one in particular. We know that wars will continue to be fought and people will die. That's human nature and the history of the human race. Tell me why THIS war should or should not be fought. Or go watch "Beaches" again.
usahog Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Whats this Guy going to say when we Hit N. Korea??

Same thing? Don't do it?? just let them toss some Nukes at US

Well this guy did his stent in the service and yes looks to me he seen his fair share of the bloodshed...

but as long as there are Saddam's and Hitler's in the world... there will be bloodshed...

it tears me apart more to see the people in this country who don't give a **** for the troops and to slam the Administration who is trying to Better America and Protect it's people whoever they may be

Hog
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Here, here, Hog!

Preaching to the choir! Some still think that Oliver Stone's brand or "patriotism" is okay. I still call it lying by omission!
JonR Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo jdr: I read as far as name deleted and then I stopped, any **** afraid to attach his name to his own statement is a WUS and not worthy of my time. Same goes for people who type those cutsey URL"s to express the opinions they can not formulate themselves ie: You gotta read this. WAR IS HELL and cost alot of lives but it is the only way to stop the " Evil Doers " ! JOnR
jdrabinski Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I deleted the name, for the record.
JonR Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
jdr: "for the record" I don't understand please explain. JonR
jdrabinski Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
You said 'name deleted' and you didn't read because that makes the author a coward, or something like that. So I wanted to note that I, not the author, deleted the name. That's all I meant.
E-Chick Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
I'm with Jon...once I saw that, I scrolled to the commentary of the board members...
JonR Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
jdr: Why did you and what gave you the right to delete the authors' name, please explain. JonR
donutboy2000 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
There are costs associated with our freedom.
usahog Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Yes there is a Cost... and in this persons letter.. the only thing that made sense was to visit the Memorial.... the Price of Freedom is Writen on the Wall... as it is also Writen on the Wall and in the History Books of every war Including and Not Forggoten
the Civil War... the one of Which John Dispises....

Hog
sumguy Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-23-2002
Posts: 65
Thanks for posting jdr. I thought it was a powerful letter and well stated. I dont think the lack of name takes away from the point the author is trying to make.
Intel Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-24-2002
Posts: 546
JDR

I have not written anything about your ultra liberal tirades until now. If an author's work is going to be used to in your postings at least have the courtesy to give him/her the respect of putting the name down. From the way the author writes I think his shoulders are big enough to handle any negative response.

I want to know just one thing. Have you ever risked your life for anything you believe in. Running out of a dorm after hours does not constitute risking your life so think hard. I remember when I was an undergrad I found it amazing how professors would teach about the Criminal Justice System but never left the class room. Please do not be one of those kind of people, if you have no experience of your own on a subject wait until one comes up that you have life experience with. The author of the letter has a right to express his views on war and risking his life. When did you leave the class room to earn that right.
cwilhelmi Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Intel - When did GWB or the MAJORITY of his staff risk their lives? Never as a soldier!! How then are they qualified to decide about such topics??

Your logic is unfounded and everyone has a right to their own opinion, even though that freedom seems unwelcome by a lot of people on this board...
Intel Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-24-2002
Posts: 546
Never did I say he did not have a right to voice his opinion. I said his opinion is not based on experience. If I gave my opinion on a subject pertaining to the pains of child birth I would not be speaking from experience. I know people who have given birth but I never have. All I said was if you are going to FLAP YOUR JIB do it about a subject you have a knowledge first hand on.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

cwilhelmi Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Then by that rational GWB should shut his flap because he has no real foreign policy experience, and he should'nt call for a war since he has no direct experience from wars.

Opinions on these matters are often not based on experience since far less than the majority of americans have served in the armed forces. Does that mean that only the military members of congress should be able to vote if the whole country goes to war?

Like I said, the logic doesn't hold water...
Intel Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-24-2002
Posts: 546
Obviously President Bush has more first hand experience than either you or I so I would say yes he has the right as an elected official to speak on the subject. I have the right and you have the right I did not say any of us do not. My point is an opinion based on nothing is not worth much. Also I realize you do not agree with the President but lets at least have respect enough for the office not to refer to him by his initials.
cwilhelmi Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I don't agree with the President on everything, but on some things I do. However, using someones initials doesn't show disrespect, escpecially since saying "President Bush" on it's own leaves confusion especially since GHB is involved in this whole mess as well.

For the record, I disagree with how GWB has handled the Iraq situation, we need to go in there but the way it's been handled shows poor diplomatic planning especially given the need for UN approval since we're trying to enforce 1441. I don't think he needs to sugar coat the issue, but he doesn't need to step on toes and spit in faces.
usahog Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
I disagree on how GWB has handled the Iraq situation to some extent also.. I think that GWB should have came into Office and picked up where Clinton had left off cleaning up Iraq's **** Long time ago... but he wasn't VOTED in just yet... and now Diplomatically he has tried to reaferm Iraq (Saddam Hussain) Follow the Sanctions of Yester Year....I have to hand it to GWB though... because had it been myself in his Shoe's there'd be a hell of allot of Parking Lots in the World today... And for the Anti Nuke Folks they could be smiling... cuz I woulda cut the US Inventory down a few notches!!!!!!!!!

Hog
Spiny Norman Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
"""Also I realize you do not agree with the President but lets at least have respect enough for the office not to refer to him by his initials. """

Pretty mild insult compared to the way the Right refered to Clinton don't you think? or was



that












somehow










differant?
usahog Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Yep it is Different Spiny... Show me where Bush has demoralized this Country... and I will show you where Clinton DID......

Deal???


Hog
Spiny Norman Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
So he got a little nookie in the white house. BIG %^&*^$ DEAL!

Not the first, won't be the last!

Wanna talk veitnam era draft defferment? I offer the Shrub's record of military service. Ushered into a cushy unit with the other rich folks spawn, consisting of training on an obsolete aircraft that stood 0 chance of seeing front line duty. He could'nt even stick around for that.

Wanna talk business dealings? I offer the activities of the Texas Rangers baseball organization and their dealings with private landowners in the area of the stadium they were building. He and his partners still refuse to pay back the millions they cost the city of Arlington with their illeagal activities.

Wanne talk his great family values? Doing a heck of a job with those two barfly daughters of his dontcha think?

Clinton was no saint. Neither is your marginally trianed chimp.

E-Chick Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Chris, our President was elected to perform the duties at hand...whether we/he could foresee them or not. We PUT him in that position.

Would your thoughts be any different if it was Clinton in the Oval Office? Did he ever risk his life as you've pointed out regarding Bush?

It's six of one, half dozen of another. Our President (think past, present and future) is our President whether he's 'served' the country in the past or not...
cwilhelmi Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
E - I agree, but when people spout off about having experience when they have none themselves and the majority of people in this country don't either it's a ridiculous argument. That's all I was trying to say...
Steve*R Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
I am more than a little familiar with war. I spent fifteen months in Vietnam in 1968-1969. I was older than most of the young men with whom I served, as I'd already graduated college when I entered the army. Everything written in the letter above is true. Truly, war is hell. You do things and witness things that you spend a lifetime trying to forget. Those who claim to have been in combat, and have the audacity to glorify it are either sociopaths or liars.
That said, Saddam Hussein must be removed from Iraq, hopefully by diplomatic means or internal insurrection, but he must be removed. This is a man who has no qualm about killing. By his own hand, he has killed many members of his own family who he thought might compromise his personal power. His wanton slaughter of the Kurds in Northern Iraq clearly displays his attitude toward humanity. With ICBMs and nuclear weapons at his disposal, the world would certainly be on the eve of imminent destruction.
It truly is, however, an horrific mark on the history of American foreign policy that during the rise of the Ayatollah Kohmeini and his assumption of power in Iran in 1978, the U.S. built Saddam Hussein's military infrastructure in Iraq, as a presumed deterrent to Iranian hegemony over the region. Without U.S. backing and support, it's unlikely Saddam Hussein could have stayed in power.
As you all know, CBS's Dan Rather recently interviewed Saddam Hussein for television broadcast. It would have been impossible for U.S. Intelligence not to know where the interview was taking place. If the goal of the Bush policy toward Iraq was just to remove Saddam Hussein, the opportunity was there. One rocket into the interview room would have ended Saddam Hussein and his reign of terror. But, certainly, the Bush administration advisors were saying, "My God, what would the public reaction be to taking out Dan Rather and the CBS production crew with Saddam Hussein?" It's called collateral damage, and it's a part of war. The Administration chose, instead, to risk the lives of thousands of American soldiers to avoid bad public relations. Believe me...believe your instincts when you say to yourself, "Saddam Hussein knew the Bush Administration would never sacrifice an American news crew to kill." Would another president have handled the situation any differently? I don't know. Had I been President, I know what the choice would have been.
usahog Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
SteveR, I will respect your Posting... and Take it from a Retired Vets point of View... but as far as being a sociopath or liar... I nor anyone Else Still serving this Country can atest to that Statement if they are in Veterans Status and feeding a Family and Love there Country... You just Go with it... just as everyone else has through the Years....You Try to make the best out of any situation that you can and take it from there...I have never said weather I have takin it in the shorts or not for Uncle Sam... and anyone can gather that either way they want to... but for many of US this is our Living and something we Love to do... Defend the USofA and sometimes that with Blood on our Hands... but no where is it Writen that there will always be Peace in the World!!!! BTW I have gone through the Shrink and was checked out OK So are you Calling me a Liar???


Hog
Steve*R Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
Hog...please read my first post carefully. I think I know how you feel, but my instincts tell me you've never been in combat, have never seen a friend bleed out in front of you, never written a letter to a buddy's parents, that he may have been killed by friendly fire.
I understand that you are writing from your heart, but so am I, and from the experience of being in an ugly war where thousands of young Americans died or were permanently maimed. No one, that I have ever met,in my almost sixty years, who experienced real combat, has described it as an enlightening, gratifying experience. Who, in their right mind, would acclaim, "There was death and dying everywhere. I enjoyed the experience?" Thank God, no one.

Yes, we have to defend our country and people. It is part of the social contract we have with our government as citizens. But, it is also the right and obligation of others to make us affirm that what we are doing is in the best interests of the people.

History tells us that the Vietnam War was a waste of American lives. Read Daniel Ellsberg's The Pentagon Papers for an historical account of what can happen when politicians of all parties pursue political goals rather than diplomacy. I answered my country's call, but the call should never have been made.

The issue isn't who is being called a liar. I ask you this, Hog: Have you been at war, in combat, seen friends die or be permanently maimed? Can you say the experience was glorious or inspiring? I think you, and anyone who has been in modern combat will say, "No."

We fight to defend our loved ones. I would do it again, in a heartbeat, if called upon. Would I enjoy the experience? Of course, not. War is not a game. It's not fun. It's not a cartoon, where after being shot, you pop back up, and take another turn. You get shot and pray to God that you live.

I've spoken to many groups, both veterans' groups and civilians, as a Vietnam Veteran, a disabled Vietnam Veteran, and as an Agent Orange Veteran. I always say I take great pride in my service to America. I come from a tradition of military service. My father's brother was a 30-year Marine, a holder of the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. My mother's brother, an Army physician in WWII, was one of the first American doctors to treat Hitler's concentration camp survivors in early 1943. I expected to serve my country and I do take pride in my service. But, it does not lessen the responsibility of all Americans, particularly our elected leaders, to make certain when they send our children to fight and die in foreign wars, it is the final alternative in the diplomatic process.

Hog, I will say it again and again, "I never met a veteran who was in ground combat who said it was an enriching, glorifying experience." I don't doubt that there are rear echelon troops, non-combatants, who have great war stories to tell. In my experience, they are always the first to glorify the war they never fought.

If you are in service, now, God speed, my friend. I hope and pray that you and your mates live long, healthy lives without so much as a scratch.
usahog Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Hog...please read my first post carefully. I think I know how you feel, but my instincts tell me you've never been in combat, have never seen a friend bleed out in front of you, never written a letter to a buddy's parents, that he may have been killed by friendly fire.

(Yes I have been in Combat, Have had a Friend Bleed out in front of me, "Not in War though" didn't write any letters to parents but witnessed there emotions in real life when the news was given to them... and I can also tell you I have experienced the emotions of Friendly Fire, and the termoil following it...)

I understand that you are writing from your heart, but so am I, and from the experience of being in an ugly war where thousands of young Americans died or were permanently maimed. No one, that I have ever met,in my almost sixty years, who experienced real combat, has described it as an enlightening, gratifying experience. Who, in their right mind, would acclaim, "There was death and dying everywhere. I enjoyed the experience?" Thank God, no one.
( I can Say "Enjoyment" is not the word to discribe it, and Enjoyment is not the word I used either...
I fulfill my with the best Joyes things I possibly can... I like to live it to the fullest... because I know that tomorrow it could be over.. and then I will have to stand before "My God" and Account for my Actions....
Yes, we have to defend our country and people. It is part of the social contract we have with our government as citizens. But, it is also the right and obligation of others to make us affirm that what we are doing is in the best interests of the people.

(Who are you refering to as "Others"? France? Germany?
and any other piss ant country who for the past 12 years has been helping Saddam rebuild his Arsinal?
let's just let him do what he wants and pull out all together... and while we're at it pull clear out of S.Korea... and just let the North walk on in??? lets just close our eye's to all the other world situations because they are not directly effecting the American Citizens... You know and have Stated this cannot happen)

History tells us that the Vietnam War was a waste of American lives. Read Daniel Ellsberg's The Pentagon Papers for an historical account of what can happen when politicians of all parties pursue political goals rather than diplomacy. I answered my country's call, but the call should never have been made.

(12 years of Diplomacy here is going to Cost many American Soldiers Lives... 12 years of not doing a damn thing but allowing these other country's to break these Sanctions and re-arm Saddam Hussain is going to Cost America Allot Financially and Morally... And Yes Vietnam was a Major Political Play and Mistake... but you cannot base the rest of the World Situations on what happend in Vietnam)

The issue isn't who is being called a liar. I ask you this, Hog: Have you been at war, in combat, seen friends die or be permanently maimed? Can you say the experience was glorious or inspiring? I think you, and anyone who has been in modern combat will say, "No."

( Yes I have been in Combat, At War... and can easily say "No" I have not seen men permanently maimed "in War" And I am not preaching that it is Glorious nor Inspiring... what I was refering to in my above Statement is.. these Men and Women..and myself are still in service and right now many are on the front lines and bracing to go into Battle not knowing the outcome... but they know as well as you do when there life is on the line they have to keep themselves pumped for what is about to take place...because all they have with them right now is there selves and there buddy's and there Training... everything else is back home 1000's of miles away and to get back to that they have to get through the Ugly Face of War... and like you many are sitting over there with little news and what they do get is the liberal crap shown on cnn and other media about the Protests and crap... not the people of the United States behind them... just Millions in the Streets Protesting... what comes to Mind?? then you get these thought of F#$*$K IT Man... I'm over here risking my ass for these F#&$Kin People and nobody cares... Wrong Portfolio showing there???
Noone can Say Media doesn't do its own tricks on ones mind...Especially when a person is in there Shoe's Deadline is Monday March 17th 2003...they have to be Geared and Focused... No its not Glorious nor Inspiring
you either Fight and Live... or you Fight and Die... but no one knows the Answer to that until the Fighting Stops....and the members still in Service have to maintain a rediness... like one of the members here said to me a few months back... he thought I was Bitching about being in the Military... when actually I was bitching about people like his dumb ass!!! he says Suck it up Soldier... )

We fight to defend our loved ones. I would do it again, in a heartbeat, if called upon. Would I enjoy the experience? Of course, not. War is not a game. It's not fun. It's not a cartoon, where after being shot, you pop back up, and take another turn. You get shot and pray to God that you live.

I've spoken to many groups, both veterans' groups and civilians, as a Vietnam Veteran, a disabled Vietnam Veteran, and as an Agent Orange Veteran. I always say I take great pride in my service to America. I come from a tradition of military service. My father's brother was a 30-year Marine, a holder of the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. My mother's brother, an Army physician in WWII, was one of the first American doctors to treat Hitler's concentration camp survivors in early 1943. I expected to serve my country and I do take pride in my service. But, it does not lessen the responsibility of all Americans, particularly our elected leaders, to make certain when they send our children to fight and die in foreign wars, it is the final alternative in the diplomatic process.

(I Myself have Family who throughout have risk there lives from the Trenches in Europe to Liberating Japan and on the beaches of New Guinie(sp), several cousin's fought in the very Same War you fought in... two of them were Brother's who joined the same Unit and Job so that when one was over there the other one would be home, there Son's, my other Cousin's are also in the Military from Marines to Army... One is Bio/Chemical Weapons Specialist and as far as we all know is sitting in Northern Iraq...(Not Certian on that though) and my Nephue is also sitting a few miles off the Iraqi boarder in the South... Marine on the Front Line.. his unit will probably be the one if Iraq does unleash there Chemicals will be in line for it...
I can tell you this... in 99 I was Proud to be serving my tours in Missions for the USA... it was my 3rd rotation and I was feeling kind of Cocky when there were only about 3 in our unit who was on there 3rd rotation to the region... when the Comander asked in the Right Start briefing who has been here once before? I raised my hand,As did many others from all over.. twice? it went up again,three time's Proudly up it went again... when he got all the way up to 15 I thought to myself F$&%K Russ you ain't been know where yet to be proud of... here were guy's, gal's on 120 day rotations back at the same grind for there 15th tour... and why? because they Love there Country.. this is there Job... and they have a Family to take care of...I lost one Marrage and all my Kid's... Yes maybe the Military had something to do with this...But I don't think So...the main thing that Brought all these people into that Area... Was and is for the Love of the Country they swore to Protect, And the People in it...So Sometimes people have to Endure the Ultimate and Extreme... But Steve it's not going to Stop over night
"with this above that you have writen, it brings myself to another Question... That Being, on this Instance with Iraq.. you do not feel that the Administration Now has not allowed the Full Diplomatic Process?" )

Hog, I will say it again and again, "I never met a veteran who was in ground combat who said it was an enriching, glorifying experience." I don't doubt that there are rear echelon troops, non-combatants, who have great war stories to tell. In my experience, they are always the first to glorify the war they never fought. (Steve My Ground Combat does not come from Hand to Hand nor in the Trenches,

If you are in service, now, God speed, my friend. I hope and pray that you and your mates live long, healthy lives without so much as a scratch.

(I Am in the Service Now... but from this Point and what is going on in the World Situation, I with my Unit are sitting this one out..."Right Now" with Iraq... Watching whats going on in other parts of the Globe... So this Gives me time to sit and Ponder And Know what is about to take place... and it as I am sure it is you Tearing Apart Emotions...)
GodSpeed to all our Fighting Forces, and to all the Coalition Forces who are standing beside this United States!!!

and SteveR Thank You!!!

Hog
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