1. Author: RICKAMAVEN | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:32PM EST | |
http://www.alternet.org/belief/theres-nothing- about-abortion-bible-so-how-do-right-wing- christians-justify-their-crusade
There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible - - So How Do Right-Wing Christians Justify Their Crusade Against Women? The modern religious right is trying to bring back the Bible's teaching that women are inferior and should be the possessions of men. Belief AlterNet / By Adam Lee 282 COMMENTS There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible -- So How Do Right-Wing Christians Justify Their Crusade Against Women? The modern religious right is trying to bring back the Bible's teaching that women are inferior and should be the possessions of men.
Photo Credit: Shutterstock.com July 17, 2013 | Like this article?Join our email list:Stay up to date with the latest headlines via email. While America languishes in an economic depression, Republican officeholders are bending all their efforts... to ban abortion. In the last few weeks and months, we've seen a blizzard of anti-choice legislation in Texas, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, and many other places. These laws stall women seeking abortions with mandatory waiting periods, brutalize them with invasive and unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds, force doctors to read shaming scripts rife with falsehoods, and impose onerous regulatory requirements that are designed to be impossible to comply with so that family- planning clinics will be forced to close. At the federal level, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted for a bill banning all abortion after 20 weeks, without even putting up a pretense that this was constitutional.
One would think the drubbing taken by anti- choice zealots like Todd Akin in the last election would have given Republicans an incentive to step back and consider whether this is a winning strategy. Instead, it seems as if their losses have only inspired them to fight harder. For the right-wing Christian fundamentalists who dominate the Republican Party, banning abortion, or at least piling up pointless regulations to make it as burdensome and difficult to obtain as possible, has become an all-consuming obsession, akin to a religious crusade.
Given the amount of effort and political capital the religious right puts into trying to restrict abortion, you'd guess that opposition to women's choice must take up a huge portion of the Bible. But the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.
The Bible says nothing whatsoever about abortion. It never mentions the subject, not once, neither in the Old Testament nor the New. This isn't because abortion was unknown in the ancient world. Much to the contrary, the ancient Greeks and Romans were well-acquainted with the idea. Surviving writings from these cultures recommend the use of herbs like pennyroyal, silphium and hellebore to induce abortion; others advise vigorous physical activity to cause a miscarriage, and some even discuss surgical methods.
It's impossible to imagine that no Jewish or Christian woman in the ancient world ever had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. Thus, it's reasonable to conclude that the Bible's authors never mention abortion because they weren't especially concerned about it. This often forces modern Christian anti-choicers to resort to laughable rationalizations like, "It was so unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion that there was no need to mention this offense in the criminal code." (This, in a book whose authors thought it worthwhile to set down the punishment for having a threesome with your wife and mother-in- law.)
There are later Christian writings that explicitly mention and forbid abortion, such as the Didache. But none of these documents made it into the canon of the Bible, which must be frustrating for modern anti-choicers who'd love to have a "clobber verse" they can throw at women seeking to exercise control over their own bodies.
Instead, religious-right activists are forced to engage in creative reinterpretation of vague biblical passages, trying to wring out something they can use to "prove" God is in favor of mandatory childbearing. One of the common ones is Jeremiah 1:4-5, which they claim as a divine endorsement of fetal personhood:
The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
The most obvious problem with this, besides the fact that it says nothing specific about abortion, is that it's not a general statement about all of humanity; it's a special predestination intended only for the prophet Jeremiah. What's more, from an anti-choice standpoint, it says too much: it says that God knew Jeremiah not just while he was in the womb, but before forming him in the womb. Perhaps the pro-life slogan should be, "Life begins before conception"? |
2. Author: Taps86 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:33PM EST | |
I'm just going to do it for everyone else |
3. Author: Burner02 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:42PM EST | |
Taps86 wrote:I'm just going to do it for everyone else
SHUT THE FUCK UP! Taps, Thank you! |
4. Author: Taps86 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:43PM EST | |
It's the Elijah Craig. |
5. Author: Quilp | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:47PM EST | |
What's a RICKMAVEN? |
6. Author: ZRX1200 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:48PM EST | |
THE CONSTITUTION MAKES NO MENTION OF PROTECTING MURDER!!!!
POOPY. |
7. Author: ZRX1200 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:49PM EST | |
THE CONSTITUTION MAKES NO MENTION OF PROTECTING MURDER!!!!
POOPY. |
8. Author: Abrignac | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:49PM EST | |
RICKAMAVEN wrote:http://www.alternet.org/belief/theres-nothing- about-abortion-bible-so-how-do-right-wing- christians-justify-their-crusade
There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible - - So How Do Right-Wing Christians Justify Their Crusade Against Women? The modern religious right is trying to bring back the Bible's teaching that women are inferior and should be the possessions of men. Belief AlterNet / By Adam Lee 282 COMMENTS There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible -- So How Do Right-Wing Christians Justify Their Crusade Against Women? The modern religious right is trying to bring back the Bible's teaching that women are inferior and should be the possessions of men.
Photo Credit: Shutterstock.com July 17, 2013 | Like this article?Join our email list:Stay up to date with the latest headlines via email. While America languishes in an economic depression, Republican officeholders are bending all their efforts... to ban abortion. In the last few weeks and months, we've seen a blizzard of anti-choice legislation in Texas, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, and many other places. These laws stall women seeking abortions with mandatory waiting periods, brutalize them with invasive and unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds, force doctors to read shaming scripts rife with falsehoods, and impose onerous regulatory requirements that are designed to be impossible to comply with so that family- planning clinics will be forced to close. At the federal level, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted for a bill banning all abortion after 20 weeks, without even putting up a pretense that this was constitutional.
One would think the drubbing taken by anti- choice zealots like Todd Akin in the last election would have given Republicans an incentive to step back and consider whether this is a winning strategy. Instead, it seems as if their losses have only inspired them to fight harder. For the right-wing Christian fundamentalists who dominate the Republican Party, banning abortion, or at least piling up pointless regulations to make it as burdensome and difficult to obtain as possible, has become an all-consuming obsession, akin to a religious crusade.
Given the amount of effort and political capital the religious right puts into trying to restrict abortion, you'd guess that opposition to women's choice must take up a huge portion of the Bible. But the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.
The Bible says nothing whatsoever about abortion. It never mentions the subject, not once, neither in the Old Testament nor the New. This isn't because abortion was unknown in the ancient world. Much to the contrary, the ancient Greeks and Romans were well-acquainted with the idea. Surviving writings from these cultures recommend the use of herbs like pennyroyal, silphium and hellebore to induce abortion; others advise vigorous physical activity to cause a miscarriage, and some even discuss surgical methods.
It's impossible to imagine that no Jewish or Christian woman in the ancient world ever had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. Thus, it's reasonable to conclude that the Bible's authors never mention abortion because they weren't especially concerned about it. This often forces modern Christian anti-choicers to resort to laughable rationalizations like, "It was so unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion that there was no need to mention this offense in the criminal code." (This, in a book whose authors thought it worthwhile to set down the punishment for having a threesome with your wife and mother-in- law.)
There are later Christian writings that explicitly mention and forbid abortion, such as the Didache. But none of these documents made it into the canon of the Bible, which must be frustrating for modern anti-choicers who'd love to have a "clobber verse" they can throw at women seeking to exercise control over their own bodies.
Instead, religious-right activists are forced to engage in creative reinterpretation of vague biblical passages, trying to wring out something they can use to "prove" God is in favor of mandatory childbearing. One of the common ones is Jeremiah 1:4-5, which they claim as a divine endorsement of fetal personhood:
The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
The most obvious problem with this, besides the fact that it says nothing specific about abortion, is that it's not a general statement about all of humanity; it's a special predestination intended only for the prophet Jeremiah. What's more, from an anti-choice standpoint, it says too much: it says that God knew Jeremiah not just while he was in the womb, but before forming him in the womb. Perhaps the pro-life slogan should be, "Life begins before conception"? Troll Alert |
9. Author: Taps86 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:49PM EST | |
Quilp wrote:What's a RICKMAVEN? A hairy old man who thinks he needs to type in CAPS lock 99% of the time. |
10. Author: Quilp | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:50PM EST | |
They say you shouldn't feed trolls |
11. Author: DadZilla3 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 6:51PM EST | |
In the Bible, I always figured that 'thou shalt not kill' or 'thou shalt not murder' meant that, you know, we shouldn't kill or murder.
Since abortion kills a living but as yet unborn baby, there you go. So simple even a liberal should be able to understand it. |
12. Author: Taps86 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 7:03PM EST | |
In the bible it also talks about parting of the red sea. You wont catch me doing that. That's for sure. I'm fine with 1 week a month I suppose..... |
13. Author: Roaster Dude | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 8:19PM EST | |
What is so confusing about " thou shalt not kill" |
14. Author: rfenst | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 8:30PM EST | |
[quote=Taps86]I'm just going to do it for everyone else
quote]
Show a modicum of respect big shot. |
15. Author: Taps86 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 8:41PM EST | |
rfenst wrote:Show a modicum of respect big shot. |
16. Author: jackconrad | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 10:32PM EST | |
"There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible - - So How Do Right-Wing Christians Justify Their Crusade Against Women?"
You mean the ones we save from death because we won't let some Doctor chop their heads off before they are delivered ???? |
17. Author: jackconrad | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 10:34PM EST | |
" Thou shalt not kill"
Before you use the Bible as a reference you should actually know what's in it Rick.. |
18. Author: Bur | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 10:38PM EST | |
Return to forum without posting
(and putting the popcorn on) |
19. Author: frankj1 | Date: Fri, 7/19/2013, 11:20PM EST | |
jackconrad wrote:" Thou shalt not kill"
Before you use the Bible as a reference you should actually know what's in it Rick.. Pretty sure that's in the 10 Commandments. Part of the Prequel. |
20. Author: DrafterX | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:03AM EST | |
maybe it was on the tablet Moses dropped after visiting the singing bush.... |
21. Author: DrafterX | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 1:17AM EST | |
|
22. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 6:46AM EST | |
Islamic teachings on abortion
Muslims regard abortion as wrong and haram (forbidden), but many accept that it may be permitted in certain cases.
All schools of Muslim law accept that abortion is permitted if continuing the pregnancy would put the mother's life in real danger. This is the only reason accepted for abortion after 120 days of the pregnancy.
Different schools of Muslim law hold different views on whether any other reasons for abortion are permitted, and at what stage of pregnancy if so.
Some schools of Muslim law permit abortion in the first 16 weeks of pregnancy, while others only permit it in the first 7 weeks.
However, even those scholars who would permit early abortion in certain cases still regard abortion as wrong, but do not regard it as a punishable wrong. The more advanced the pregnancy, the greater the wrong.
The Qur'an does not explicitly refer to abortion but offers guidance on related matters. Scholars accept that this guidance can properly be applied to abortion.
The Islamic view is based on the very high priority the faith gives to the sanctity of life. The Qur'an states:
Whosoever has spared the life of a soul, it is as though he has spared the life of all people. Whosoever has killed a soul, it is as though he has murdered all of mankind.
Most Muslim scholars would say that a foetus in the womb is recognised and protected by Islam as a human life.
Islam allows abortion to save the life of the mother because it sees this as the 'lesser of two evils' and there is a general principle in Sharia (Muslim law) of choosing the lesser of two evils.
Abortion is regarded as a lesser evil in this case because:
the mother is the 'originator' of the foetus the mother's life is well-established the mother has with duties and responsibilities the mother is part of a family allowing the mother to die would also kill the foetus in most cases
The Qur'an makes it clear that a foetus must not be aborted because the family fear that they will not be able to provide for it - they should trust Allah to look after things:
Kill not your offspring for fear of poverty; it is We who provide for them and for you. Surely, killing them is a great sin.
Qur'an 17:32
The same (and similar) texts also ban abortion on social or financial grounds relating to the mother or the rest of the family - e.g. that the pregnancy wasn't planned and a baby will interfere with the mother's life, education or career. |
23. Author: Quilp | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 6:55AM EST | |
Why do people who can't get pregnant get a vote. |
24. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 6:57AM EST | |
Quilp wrote:Why do people who can't get pregnant get a vote. You mean like.....fathers? |
25. Author: Quilp | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:01AM EST | |
Yes. The guy who had a two minute seizure on top of her. Where not talking stable Christian married families, who waited to have sex till married. |
26. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:10AM EST | |
Quilp wrote:Yes. The guy who had a two minute seizure on top of her. Where not talking stable Christian married families, who waited to have sex till married. Is there a form where he can "opt-out" on child support? |
27. Author: Quilp | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:17AM EST | |
I'm not sure, I've never accidentally knocked anyone up. I'm positive, however, that almost every store has condoms in all sizes and styles. Around a buck apiece. Fill out one of those, if you're worried about paying child support.
How do they do it in France? |
28. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:21AM EST | |
Quilp wrote:I'm not sure, I've never accidentally knocked anyone up. I'm positive, however, that almost every store has condoms in all sizes and styles. Around a buck apiece. Fill out one of those, if you're worried about paying child support. Isn't that the same thing as saying she shoulda kept her vag shut and then there be no need to kill the unborn? |
29. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:23AM EST | |
Quilp wrote:How do they do it in France? It is open season on fetuses. No bag limit. |
30. Author: Quilp | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:28AM EST | |
I guess. He said, she said. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. When its all said and done, we can't get pregnant, and don't have to grow another life in our bodies. You and I needn't get involved in their choice, that currently is legal. |
31. Author: HockeyDad | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 7:33AM EST | |
It is currently legal but even speed limits gets changed. People regardless of their gender try to have laws changed because they feel the law is wrong. |
32. Author: TMCTLT | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 9:26AM EST | |
rfenst wrote:Show a modicum of respect big shot. IMHO Robert respect IS something to be earned, not just handed out because someone else says so :) We are / were taught as children to "respect our elders" because WE are children and don't yet hold the knowledge to question authority. However with the "dumbing down" in this country I'm not convinced this is sound logic anymore, the adult population seems to be on the whole growing increasingly more ignorant with each year that passes. I also DO NOT respect Ricks ability to copy / paste whatever fits his emotional state. Quilp wrote:I guess. He said, she said. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. When its all said and done, we can't get pregnant, and don't have to grow another life in our bodies. You and I needn't get involved in their choice, that currently is legal. You do understand that the whole Roe V Wade thing was built / passed on LIES.....yes??? In fact the very woman who was the subject of the case is now AGAINST it... |
33. Author: teedubbya | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 9:40AM EST | |
Context |
34. Author: rfenst | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:00PM EST | |
TMCTLT wrote:IMHO Robert respect IS something to be earned, not just handed out because someone else says so :) We are / were taught as children to "respect our elders" because WE are children and don't yet hold the knowledge to question authority. However with the "dumbing down" in this country I'm not convinced this is sound logic anymore, the adult population seems to be on the whole growing increasingly more ignorant with each year that passes. I also DO NOT respect Ricks ability to copy / paste whatever fits his emotional state.
He's earned it. Others have earned it. Ignorant he's not. You just don't like him and the way he views the world. You let his posts rile you. Cut 'n pastes and references are indicative of what one reads. What one reads typically represents one's state of mind.
You do understand that the whole Roe V Wade thing was built / passed on LIES.....yes??? In fact the very woman who was the subject of the case is now AGAINST it...
So, are there any other SCOTUS cases you want her to overrule? |
35. Author: TMCTLT | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:10PM EST | |
rfenst wrote:So, are there any other SCOTUS cases you want her to overrule?
To be quite honest Robert, I'm NOT sure she could do any worse....thanks for asking |
36. Author: rfenst | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:11PM EST | |
HockeyDad wrote:It is open season on fetuses. No bag limit. LMFAO on the stir. |
37. Author: TMCTLT | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:14PM EST | |
rfenst wrote:LMFAO on the stir. My good man....if ANYONE or any profession is guilty of " stirring" it would be YOURS |
38. Author: rfenst | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:25PM EST | |
TMCTLT wrote:My good man....if ANYONE or any profession is guilty of " stirring" it would be YOURS OK. Here we go again... |
39. Author: teedubbya | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 12:48PM EST | |
I vaguely remember a post birth mass abortion in the bible.
|
40. Author: Quilp | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 1:36PM EST | |
Rfenst must be a lawyer? |
41. Author: RICKAMAVEN | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 4:09PM EST | |
Taps86
you are speaking for everyone?
who elected you spokesman?
what's wrong with the article?
i stopped using caps weeks ago.
#12 i can't even understand what you are trying to say
jackconrad
a fetus is not a person except in the eyes of repubican, few if any have brains.
i vote for vaginal ultra sounds for women and cystoscopes for men, start the line and be the first.
Quilp 25
another good reason to avoid christianity
27
the french they area funny race
they talk with thier nose and f*** with thier face
TMCTLT 32
i have no problem with copy and paste when an author says something better then i could.
"You do understand that the whole Roe V Wade thing was built /
passed on LIES.....yes???
In fact the very woman who was the subject of the case is now
AGAINST it...
tell me about the lies.
i have to stop for a while. toby and i axe watching a 15 part english
tv series starring gillian anderson. i'll pick up with #34 |
42. Author: frankj1 | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 5:05PM EST | |
#12 i can't even understand what you are trying to say
Rick, Taps was talking about his wife getting her period
|
43. Author: Gene363 | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 5:35PM EST | |
Why not offer free abortions if accompanied by permanent sterilization?
After all, if you can't take care of the current baby, why allow another?
It would also tend to end the blood lines of those willing to kill their own offspring, a win win!
FWIW, I think abortion is barbaric and totally against the natural order, especially the nurturing nature of women. At the same time, I don't believe the government has any business up a woman's skirt. |
44. Author: frankj1 | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 9:34PM EST | |
Gene363 wrote:Why not offer free abortions if accompanied by permanent sterilization?
After all, if you can't take care of the current baby, why allow another?
It would also tend to end the blood lines of those willing to kill their own offspring, a win win!
FWIW, I think abortion is barbaric and totally against the natural order, especially the nurturing nature of women. At the same time, I don't believe the government has any business up a woman's skirt. and therein lies the debate of our nation. two very powerful concepts, seemingly mutually exclusive, colliding for decades. Nice short, concise summary Gene. Wrestling with this when it comes to law, eh? |
45. Author: Gene363 | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 9:53PM EST | |
frankj1 wrote:and therein lies the debate of our nation. two very powerful concepts, seemingly mutually exclusive, colliding for decades. Nice short, concise summary Gene. Wrestling with this when it comes to law, eh? Sure, sometimes it's difficult to mind your own business, but I manage.
I feel the same about drugs too. |
46. Author: frankj1 | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 10:31PM EST | |
Gene363 wrote:Sure, sometimes it's difficult to mind your own business, but I manage.
I feel the same about drugs too. on the surface, due to categorizing people like you and me, many would find it hard to believe that we share certain struggles. But it's complex, not cut and dry. |
47. Author: paulkeck | Date: Sat, 7/20/2013, 10:49PM EST | |
Taps you spoke for me!! And Rick all I can say is you better thank God that your mom didn't believe the same stupid chit you do!! |
48. Author: Brewha | Date: Sun, 7/21/2013, 12:33PM EST | |
Gene363 wrote: FWIW, I think abortion is barbaric and totally against the natural order, especially the nurturing nature of women. At the same time, I don't believe the government has any business up a woman's skirt.
+1 |
49. Author: tailgater | Date: Sun, 7/21/2013, 2:42PM EST | |
Gene363 wrote:
FWIW, I think abortion is barbaric and totally against the natural order, especially the nurturing nature of women. At the same time, I don't believe the government has any business up a woman's skirt.
Then we should stop calling it a "choice". When Planned Parenthood gives out their questionnaire, it should state: Check here if you want to carry your baby to term. Check here if you want to end the life of your unborn child. Too many on the left pee their panties when a pro-lifer calls abortion murder. Fine. But stop hiding the truth. The unborn child has a heartbeat. How many woman who get an abortion know this? How many saw it on an ultrasound? Or listened to it before flushing out of her womb? Keep it legal, but keep it honest. Maybe they should be forced to listen to the heartbeat, or see the tiny unborn child. You want to call it a fetus instead? OK. Listen to the heartbeat of the living fetus in the womb before they use surgical instruments to suck out the brain. If you think this is too morbid, then you're beginning to understand exactly what abortion is. Keep it legal. I agree. But we should push hard to make it the last "choice" rather than the easiest. |
50. Author: Brewha | Date: Sun, 7/21/2013, 3:54PM EST | |
tailgater wrote:Then we should stop calling it a "choice".
When Planned Parenthood gives out their questionnaire, it should state: Check here if you want to carry your baby to term. Check here if you want to end the life of your unborn child.
Too many on the left pee their panties when a pro-lifer calls abortion murder. Fine. But stop hiding the truth. The unborn child has a heartbeat. How many woman who get an abortion know this? How many saw it on an ultrasound? Or listened to it before flushing out of her womb?
Keep it legal, but keep it honest. Maybe they should be forced to listen to the heartbeat, or see the tiny unborn child. You want to call it a fetus instead? OK. Listen to the heartbeat of the living fetus in the womb before they use surgical instruments to suck out the brain.
If you think this is too morbid, then you're beginning to understand exactly what abortion is.
Keep it legal. I agree. But we should push hard to make it the last "choice" rather than the easiest.
And what if the woman HONESTLY wants you to mind your own vagina? This is the problem with so many on the right. They 'know what is right' for everyone because they believe they know the mind of God. Who cares if it is in the King James Version, they 'just know what is right'. Btw, the right doesn't make the assanine statement that abortion is murder because they are stupid. They do it to push an agenda . . . . |