Calaver --- what I wanted you to pay particular attention to (I should have been a little clearer)...

... was when I stated, "It will be a never ending 'clash of opposing views' ... with the word 'opinion' being the only thing that ALL will be able to agree upon."

;^)

Quote: Slimboli
I still amazes me ... how some people still think that Cuban cigars are 'all that and more' ... when all they are ... are just another EXCELLENT cigar, from one of the many 'countries of origin' on this planet ... that are able to produce EXCELLENT cigars.

Too many people have fallen for this Cuban 'mystic' thing, and have become overly crazed by it ... when in all honesty ... they are from an island that is not THAT much different from the Dominican Republic (for example), when it comes to climate, soils, longitude and latituded, etc.

Sure they are some outstanding cigars that come from Cuba, I have many ... and enjoyt them immensely. But ... are they any MORE outstanding than those that come from the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.?

I think not ... and for those that continue to keep their head in the 'Cuban' cigar fantasy world, are not dealing with reality ... as there are dozens of cigars out there that have consistantly beat Cuban cigars in blind taste tests over the years ... and you will continue to see more that do in the future.

Your kiding right? nobody in his/her right mind that has smoked a real Habano will say such blasphemy! Taste taste? by who Ca? Ha that's a joke! I' don't even smoke non-Cubans any more. the nons will leave a crappy, metalic dirty ashtray taste in my mouth. And habanos, swetness, alweys. Maybe for you to say this is because you have only hab fake habanos?And there IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SOIL, CLIMATE ETC in comparison with Rep Dom, Nic, Hon. Why in the hell do you think al this guy's claim Cuban seed cigars, or claim a cuban heritage, Do you think it's coincidence? Look a CAO's so called premiuim smokes. The maduro aniv line, it's dead ringer for a Partagas serie D4 band! and the Aniv Cameroon band is a dead ringer for the R&J Churchill! Now why do you think this is? I'l let you think about it now.

smokemed --- I don't have to think about it ... I've already thought about it long enough ... and stand by what I stated. I've smoked many Cuban cigars over the last three years, and still have a good assortment of them right now ... and no, they are not fake.

It's all subjective ... different strokes for different folks, you know. Cuban cigars (if you can find a 'well -aged' one), can be nirvana ... but I'll take any one of my favorite 'domestics' over what's coming out of Cuba these days ...

And face it ... many people smoke Cuban cigars just for the 'mystic' and status it brings ... and 'domestic' cigar rollers, will jump on the bandwagon for the same reason. There is so much hype revolving around Cuban cigars ... it's a good marketing strategy to make their cigars and bands look like ones from Cuba, along with all the other 'hoop-la'. And as far as Cuban seed goes ... that's the biggest crock I've heard in a long time. Anyone with any background in botany or horticulture, or at least anyone with a little nursery experience, will tell you that the seed of any plant will not produce the same results (many times, not even close) if they are grown elsewhere. But, it's cool, and bumps up it's desirability, to say the seed came from Cuba.

And ... for the third time this thread ... I'll say it again ...

It will be a never ending 'clash of opposing views' ... with the word 'opinion' being the only thing that ALL will be able to agree upon.

We agree to disagree ... so let's leave it at that. We have both stated our opinions, so now it's up to everyones 'individual tastes' on what they think is better ... which is the determining factor and 'final answer' for all of us anyway.

BTW --- now you got me wanting one ... just because all this debating has piqued my tastebuds ... Hey, I'll give them a fair shot ...

I'm in a Maduro mood, so what shall it be ... a Partagas Serie D No. 3 Limited Edition Maduro, or a Romeo y Julieta Robusto Limited Edition Maduro?

I haven't tried the latter yet, so I think I'll go with that one ...

OK ... here's what I thought ... and I even smoked it with a fresh cup of 'home-roasted' Cuban 'Crystal Mountain' coffee to stay with the theme ...

Was it a good cigar? No ... it was an OUTSTANDING cigar! It was perfect in every aspect.

It was a beautiful cigar, dark and oily, and the construction was flawless, except for an ocassional splitting of the wrapper, which can happen with any cigar.

The draw couldn't have been better. I've become accustomed to tight draws and plugged cigars with many Cuban cigars lately, but this one was perfect. Lot's of thick smoke ... and an effortless draw.

How did it taste?

Just like smokemed described ... with a noticeable sweetness to it that left a very pleasant 'finish' on my palate. And, it also had the unmistakeable 'creaminess' that is the trademark of most Cuban cigars ... and that is something you won't find in many (if any) domestic cigars, unless they are of the 'top-shelf' variety, and have a great deal of age on them. It had an incredibly good flavor and aroma, and not the slightest bit of harshness ...

Did it make me dizzy? Did leave my nose and tounge with that unmistakable 'tingle'?

Absoulutely! But then, maybe I shouldn't have been inhaling it ... but it was that good! I didn't want to waste any of it ...

All they way through ... I was thinking to myself, man ... if only they were all like this. I would then become one of the 'extremists' of Cuban cigars. I would smoke only Cuban cigars ... and tout their virtues to anyone who would listen.

But, unfortunatley they're not ...

... and there are just as many domestic cigars out there that can stand up to the Cuban cigar, and hold its own. A blind taste test is just that ... blind. Panelists do not know what they are smoking, at least that's the way it is with Smoke Magazine. I don't believe much in what CA has to say ... but I know that Smoke Magazine conducts their tastings this way ... and are highly respected.

Keep in mind ... I never said that Cuban cigars are 'dog-rockets'. I just think that there is too much emphasis put on them. I'll smoke a good Cuban cigar any day of the week ... and I will continue to keep a 'special' humidor stocked with them, and will continue in my search for the best of them.

But, on the same token, I will also continue my quest for the 'other' equally great cigars that are out there(just different their flavor profiles), and are easier to get, the quality control sets higher standards, and are many times less expensive ...

I really think it has a lot to do with what mood you I'm in. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a specific 'cigar experience' ... and that cigar could be one of the many Cuban cigars, or it could be any number of the many others that have become favorites of mine.

I just think that having an open mind and a 'balanced plate' to choose from, is what makes 'variety the spice of life' ... and that will be as different as the people are who smoke cigars.

If price were the same, there may be a different prospective. I think the real issue is, you would have an easier time finding a crappy non than a Cuban. Mastique? I can buy Cubans legally. No mastique here. If you look at CA's conniosseur's Corner, there are very few non's. Some will say CA is bull. I think Non's have really evolved in the past few years and Cuban's have been hurt by the Boom.

All in all, if you take the Top cigars from year to year for the 10 years prior to 2000, there's a clear winner on average. I do find that it's odd the the # of people who defend Non's and have had too few Cubans to compare.

I do respect Slim's opinions though, But even he should agree that prior to 2000, for the most part there is a clear cut winner.

For the money, I would smoke some of the non's that have filled my Cuban void. If money were no issue, it would be cuban's all the way, with the exception of a few mistique non's.

I think people pay $20 bucks for a Cuban and say for the money that wasn't all that. Expectations play a big roll. Ya for $5 bucks a stick, there's a lot of smokes I'd have over Cuban's, that's why I Buy from C-bid. As a side not, Tax of cigars went up 188% in 2001 where I live. I really save some huge bucks in smoking them cheap 5 buck non's

For very personal reasons, I no longer buy Cuban cigars. After speaking with a young man whose sister was gunned down by Castro's thugs while trying to leave the island almost two years ago, I decided to stop buying Cuban cigars. Again, it's personal.

The comments about the quality of pre-2000 Habanos flies in the face of everything the Cuban cigar industry has done to correct the problems that plagued the industry. Your chance of getting poorly aged, plugged Cuban cigars, rolled in the late 90s was greater than it had been in decades. In 2001, the Cuban cigar industry began aggressively using mechanical draw testers to sift out the plugged cigars that are anathema to every cigar smoker.

Yes, of course, there were some great Habanos made in the 90s. I smoked hundreds, if not thousands during the decade, and I also threw away 20 to 30% that just wouldn't draw.

The point is, the Habanos rolled after 2000, are consistently better cigars. If given the choice of a box rolled in 1999 or one rolled in 2002, I'd take the younger box. There's a far greater likelihood of quality cigars.

A quick note about Cuban farm cigars. For extra money many Cubans grow a little tobacco, home process it, and either roll fakes of well known brands, or just sell what they've made for what they are. Some of the most memorable Cuban cigars I've ever smoked were farm cigars. They were hand rolled like an old cheroot, but what a great smoke!

That PSD EL3 is one fine fine smoke... Castro will be gone soon. We'll see trade with cuba soon.

Wholy Crap Robby, your only the 2nd person to ever have this opinion on this board. I being the first. That means we agree on something. Say it aint so.

If others share this opinion, I just haven't heard it expressed lately.

Steve,

Those pre- 2000's I talked about were likely 96, 97 and 98. The ones I've had in 2000 and 2001, just haven't been the same. I am pumped that things are getting better now.

Hey aren't you the guy that's also boycotting French wine, you were supposed to send me all your stock. hehehe

What are you talking about limoric ... I, and many others, several who don't even post here anymore ... said that years ago ...

... and the reason you haven't heard it lately, is because it would be putting it the 'beating a dead horse' catagory ... 😉

It just is one of those things that are understood ... and goes unsaid ...

Slim,

Bull, on 3 seperate threads, I was on my own when it came to this topic. Of course not every person on this board chimed in. I took that as the majority opinion.

Of course what I should have done was research every post for the past 2 years that I've been here.

I stand corrected, there's 3.

Hey Slim, I was only ribbing Robby anyway. Keep'm in the holster LOD

Side note, I have a personal interest in the demise of Mr. Castro. I'm one of those citizens of the world that can do bisiness there legally. So thanks for the obvious, but of done a little research off this board.

limoric --- no problem, but do you really think that just because you say something ... and then everyone that doesn't chime right in with you (like lemmings going over a cliff) ... that makes them have an opposing view to what you said?

Give me a break ... it a 'no-brainer' that when Casto goes ... all kinds of things are going to change.

Slim,

So what your saying is although many disagreed, it's a no-brainer and I should have just ignored the pessimists because it's a no-brainer. Hmmm, I could do the same thing when it comes to other no-brainer topics, like Cuban's are better, hehehe JK

Many believe when he's gone he will have a successor. Even if he did, I think it would be short lived.

Others believe the US will never end the Embargo because of the political clout the x-patriots in Florida have. Florida does have the 3rd largest voter base. Just look at the last election. Some valid points...

Per James Suckling's review of the new limitadas at the CA site:

As in the past, all the limitadas, are made in limited numbers in specific factories and with two-year-old wrapper from the top leaves, or corona, of the tobacco plant. The wrappers are not maduro, but colorado oscuro or oscuro, or dark brown to very dark brown. They tend to have a richer, slightly more spicy flavor profile than normal cigars in their respective brands.

OK - this may be what some refer to as 'thread-jacking' (i'm still kinda new here and unsure of this) But, how come Britney Spears hasn't released any good videos lately? I really enjoy watching her shaking her grove thing. Takes me from a robusto to a chruchill...