"Are you suggesting this mishap happened because we are at war?"

no, I am SAYING that criticizing a branch of the military and complaining about cost over an accident, especially during wartime is in extremely poor taste and ridiculous. I'm sure you could do better, right?

Definately FUBAR & SNAFU. I agree with Shawn that it was probably the Sub's fault. I'm sure everyone is getting their collective asses chewed. I don't care who's fault it is and it's a bitch that 15 sailors were injured.

'..criticizing a branch of the military..'

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Dead wrong. I'm critical of the person or persons reponsibily for the accident. Then again, from the few times we've bump heads on other threads (death penalty, immigration etc) I know you aren't a huge fan of accountability, or penalizing anybody for anything.

'..complaining about cost over an accident, especially during wartime is in extremely poor taste and ridiculous...'

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How is complaining over the cost of the mishap (in dollars and the injuries to 15 members of the military) in poor taste?

'..I’m sure you could do better, right? ..'

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No chance. Then again, if I had decades of training, the best guidence systems on the planet, and a support staff doing their jobs, I'd have a reasonable shot at not smashing my craft into another.

chiefburg,

I was referring to llvia.

Is it common to have a ship and a sub in such close proximity?

23. you have NO idea what I think

and accountability and responsibility go hand in hand with freedom

my opinions expressed on the boards opposing vigilantism have to do with respect for the law that says it's illegal

but this thread isn't about me, is it?

it's about the Navy

You are right. It's about the Navy. But more specifically, it was about the ineptitude of one or more persons that caused the incident.

When you started with the "jacked up thread," wrapping yourself in the American flag, while suggesting I am something other than a strong supporter of the military and it people is just short of a personal attack.

8-Track - Ship's and sub's can be in close proximity, expecially while doing exercises. The ocean is big but it's not that big when you are doing maneuvers. What should be surprising is how few accidents we have when you consider the total number of ships at sea, the foreign navies, the foreign navy subs who attempt to be invisible, etc.

This incident is very unfortunate and very costly and I'm sure heads will roll. But, accidents happen to even the best of people - especially when one is submerged and the other can't see them or maneuver as quickly. Plus, we do have the best equipment but it is still man made and operated by man (who is inherently flawed at best).

You have a right to be outraged but it's not always as cut and dry when we are arm-chair quarterbacks. I wasn't there so I can't speculate on what happened.

I'm guessing the fallout will most likely be that the Conning Officer, the Chief of The Boat, the XO and the Captain will all get relieved. Those enlisted personnel on watch at the time will probably also get reprimanded.

Careers will be in the trash can.

I'm wondering if the sub may have had a technical problem, or possibly a system failure.

I know this stuff happens (i.e., the recent grounding in Hawaii)but this collision seems so unlikely...

I'll have to ask Andy when he gets home, because I'm not 100% sure of my memory, but....

I seem to recall that the sub would have to be surfaced if it was in the Straits of Hormuz because it was within a certain distance of land. Also, does it say whether it was day or night when the collision happened? I don't think Andy's boat had running lights (or whatever the Navy calls them) and a black boat at night is hard to spot. Would've been close quarters in that area too, wouldn't it? Not saying - just asking for clarification.

Tammy

^Nope. Subs can and do transit the straits of hormuz submerged.

lluvia - 8track is a very good friend of mine. I was in the Navy for 20 years.

I'm sure he's genuinely upset that this happened on the one hand, and on the other I'm sure it was a crack at me because I was in the Navy. A good natured ribbing, if you will.

Either that, or I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and he's a military hating, America bashing communist.

Okay

MACS

my apologies to 8track...still grievin'my cousin

just hit me sideways

sorry 8track

31 - thanks for the clarification. I remembered that he said they had to transit on the surface when the Chicago went to the gulf, and I remembered being told that they had to surface within so many miles of land, but I wasn't sure if the two connected in this case.

Tammy

^The Straits of Hormuz are kind of a 'special' transit. On the ships we usually go zipping through there as fast as we can. We're close to Iran there, and we ain't real fond of that.

As a sub... you do NOT want Iran to know you're in the gulf, let alone transiting the Straits.

They know... but they don't know... ya know?

'..I’m sure he’s genuinely upset that this happened on the one hand, and on the other I’m sure it was a crack at me because I was in the Navy. A good natured ribbing, if you will. ..'

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Dammit, I HATE it when he's 100% correct. Then again, it doesn't happen much.

llvia,

Apology accepted.

^HOLY ****! I'll be right back... gotta play the lottery.

Most who don't understand how this can happen have not been involved in maneuvers on the high seas.Until you've survived these situations and FULLY understand the terms "EMERGENCY BREAKAWAY"(PUCKER FACTOR 10)or on a foggy night you wake up to "ALL HANDS PREPARE FOR COLLISION"BONG,BONG,BONG,BONG,BONG(PUCKER FACTOR 15).........it's just hard to imagine the dangers that huge ocean and those little bitty ships present.

BTW I agree.........the sub skipper is going down.Like MACS said the gator freighter was blind(no sonar).The sub on the other hand had to be at periscope depth or shallower to be drilled by a flatbottom.

As for monetary concerns I could care less what repairs cost.Thats the price for playing in the BIG BOY YACHT CLUB(a necessary evil so to speak).I'M MUCH MORE CONCERNED WITH THE INJURED.........as shoud we all.

Ron

As the only person on this Forum imminently qualified to comment on this thread, I can tell you that until you utter the words, "I relieve you, Sir.", you have no idea what is involved in commanding a ship at sea. I can tell you that oging through the Strait of Hormuz, the both vessels were at "Special Sea and Anchor Detail" or a similar type of increased readiness condition, and the gator freighter was certainly not aware of the sub's presence. Subs DO transit in/out of that area submerged, at PD, to remain undetected, and should have been passively tracking the dump truck, although the noise level through the straits is very high due to traffic and acoustic topography.

Unfortunate accident.. yes.... avoidable...likely...

will people lose their jobs... absolutely. The Sub CO is toast....as is the NAV and XO...at a minimum. There will be accountability that will literally ruin these people's lives. You know that going in when you take command.

I can tell you that I prayed every night that I went to sleep that the 24 year old kid that was on watch would have the sense to call me to the bridge in sufficient time if he lost the bubble or encountered an unusual situation. I was lucky.... but I also didn't sleep much....

Cap'n

You're absolutely right....................and thats why I never wanted your job.I had one Captain on the USS Crommelin (FFG-37)that insisted on being woke up when any surface vessel approached the 10 mile barrier.Needless to say he slept very little when we were in the freight lanes.The only thing the man ever complimented me on was my coffee........I like midwatch mud.LOL

Ron