FuzzNJ
15 years ago

Interesting, so it might be argued that scientists have "faith" in their conclusions/data? Isn't faith belief in something without supportive facts? To take it another leap, science is therefore their religion? It can be argued that is a logical progression, true?

Religion is not exclusive to belief in a supreme being or creationism IMO, but more so the following of any dogma/teachings. It can also be argued that atheism is a religion by definition. Google it!

If you do Google that point you will find supportive info of that theory. I agree google is a tool to find more info, but there may be more/different info than one would agree with.


Just a thought.

hank56 wrote:



And a really, really bad thought at that Hank. Sorry, big time fail.

The non belief in something does not make it that thing. Atheism is a religion as much as not playing baseball is a sport, or not collecting beany babies is a hobby.

Saying science is a religion is just trying to put something a person doesn't understand or is skeptical of in a framework they do. Science tests, repeats, is peer reviewed and will adjust if proven incorrect. There is no such thing in any religion.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

Fuzz

What are your thoughts on the origin of matter?

borndead1 wrote:



Who the hell knows? How about time? That's a major mind f*ck. These questions are beyond human understanding at this point. Hell, the size of the universe is impossible to comprehend.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

Who the hell knows? How about time? That's a major mind f*ck. These questions are beyond human understanding at this point. Hell, the size of the universe is impossible to comprehend.

FuzzNJ wrote:




Matter was not created by some magical God. It was created by some other magic.
borndead1
15 years ago

Who the hell knows? How about time? That's a major mind f*ck. These questions are beyond human understanding at this point. Hell, the size of the universe is impossible to comprehend.

FuzzNJ wrote:



I agree. My outlook is similar to Tailgaters I guess. Evolution can be proven (to an extent), but the idea that matter and life, even 1 living cell, can just appear out of nowhere is ridiculous to me. I believe that there is some sort of "divine presence" in the universe, but to claim to know what it is, what it wants, what makes it happy, etc., is the highest example of the arrogance of man.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

I agree. My outlook is similar to Tailgaters I guess. Evolution can be proven (to an extent), but the idea that matter and life, even 1 living cell, can just appear out of nowhere is ridiculous to me. I believe that there is some sort of "divine presence" in the universe, but to claim to know what it is, what it wants, what makes it happy, etc., is the highest example of the arrogance of man.

borndead1 wrote:





It is a bit of a stretch for many to believe that they scientifically evolved from non-living mud.
elk hunter
15 years ago

Who the hell knows? How about time? That's a major mind f*ck. These questions are beyond human understanding at this point. Hell, the size of the universe is impossible to comprehend.

FuzzNJ wrote:



And that is why some people can't wrap their head around religion...

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum on a lot of things, you and I... At the end of the day Fuzz, I respect you...

I must admit the conversation has been entertaining... Glad you are back...
HockeyDad
15 years ago
I'm not sure why the original non-living mud that spontaneously created the living thing that we all evolved from didn't keep spontaneously creating a bunch of other living things and why is still isn't spontaneously creating a bunch of new living things still today.

It's like it said "One and done!"

borndead1
15 years ago

It is a bit of a stretch for many to believe that they scientifically evolved from non-living mud.

HockeyDad wrote:



You could actually convince me that we evolved from mud. What you can't convince me of is that the mud appeared by itself, out of nowhere.

My biggest beef with evolution is that it can only explain what happened after the appearance of the mud.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

I agree. My outlook is similar to Tailgaters I guess. Evolution can be proven (to an extent), but the idea that matter and life, even 1 living cell, can just appear out of nowhere is ridiculous to me. I believe that there is some sort of "divine presence" in the universe, but to claim to know what it is, what it wants, what makes it happy, etc., is the highest example of the arrogance of man.

borndead1 wrote:



The universe doesn't want anything, nor does it have emotions of any kind. To personify it is ridiculous.

And I know it seems ridiculous, but:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/ribonucleotides/ 

First steps in proving it.

Believe what you need to believe to make it, fantastic. My father is a retired evangelical minister and I love my parents to death. That's not the issue. Just don't claim something isn't true or hasn't been studied or proven when it has. Denying these things don't really help anything or anyone.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

Matter was not created by some magical God. It was created by some other magic.

HockeyDad wrote:



Yes, magic, Doug Henning created matter with the help of wizards. [sarcasm]

Can't believe it, but I think I'm going to actually have to post the sarcasm thing from now on just to be safe.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

And that is why some people can't wrap their head around religion...

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum on a lot of things, you and I... At the end of the day Fuzz, I respect you...

I must admit the conversation has been entertaining... Glad you are back...

elk hunter wrote:



Wow, thanks. An actual non hostile post. I don't know what to say, so that's it.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

You could actually convince me that we evolved from mud. What you can't convince me of is that the mud appeared by itself, out of nowhere.

My biggest beef with evolution is that it can only explain what happened after the appearance of the mud.

borndead1 wrote:






Well some things you just have to accept with a leap of faith!
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

You could actually convince me that we evolved from mud. What you can't convince me of is that the mud appeared by itself, out of nowhere.

My biggest beef with evolution is that it can only explain what happened after the appearance of the mud.

borndead1 wrote:



That's not evolutionary science, it's theoretical physics and those guys are wicked smart.
borndead1
15 years ago

First steps in proving it.

FuzzNJ wrote:



Proving what exactly? That scientists can combine things that already exist and prove a hypothesis?


borndead1
15 years ago

Well some things you just have to accept with a leap of faith!

HockeyDad wrote:




Shame on you, HD. We are discussing evolution. No need to drop F-bombs.
fishinguitarman
15 years ago
I have lots of this



faith   /feɪθ/ Show Spelled
[feyth] Show IPA

–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

I'm not sure why the original non-living mud that spontaneously created the living thing that we all evolved from didn't keep spontaneously creating a bunch of other living things and why is still isn't spontaneously creating a bunch of new living things still today.

It's like it said "One and done!"

HockeyDad wrote:



Lmao, man didn't stop evolving when we got thumbs. These things don't happen overnight, you really can't be serious with a comment like that can you? These processes take millions of years punctuated by disasters that may cause a quick jump every 100 million years or so.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

Proving what exactly? That scientists can combine things that already exist and prove a hypothesis?


borndead1 wrote:



No.

“By changing the way we mix the ingredients together, we managed to make ribonucleotides,” said Sutherland. “The chemistry works very effectively from simple precursors, and the conditions required are not distinct from what one might imagine took place on the early Earth.”

Like other would-be nucleotide synthesizers, Sutherland’s team included phosphate in their mix, but rather than adding it to sugars and nucleobases, they started with an array of even simpler molecules that were probably also in Earth’s primordial ooze.

They mixed the molecules in water, heated the solution, then allowed it to evaporate, leaving behind a residue of hybrid, half-sugar, half-nucleobase molecules. To this residue they again added water, heated it, allowed it evaporate, and then irradiated it.

At each stage of the cycle, the resulting molecules were more complex. At the final stage, Sutherland’s team added phosphate. “Remarkably, it transformed into the ribonucleotide!” said Sutherland.

According to Sutherland, these laboratory conditions resembled those of the life-originating “warm little pond” hypothesized by Charles Darwin if the pond “evaporated, got heated, and then it rained and the sun shone.”



Now where all the matter came from in the first place, we already discussed that's still an unknown, but they were able to re-create how that matter became a more complex organism without divine intervention.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

I have lots of this



faith   /feɪθ/ Show Spelled
[feyth] Show IPA

–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

fishinguitarman wrote:



I have a lot of 1 and 4
HockeyDad
15 years ago

Lmao, man didn't stop evolving when we got thumbs. These things don't happen overnight, you really can't be serious with a comment like that can you? These processes take millions of years punctuated by disasters that may cause a quick jump every 100 million years or so.

FuzzNJ wrote:





The non-living mud has had plenty of time to produce something else. Our whole evolution chain has been rolling for millions of years and the mud is just taking a day off? Lazy fricking mud......make something else.

You're gonna tell me the only reason the non-living mud made something in the first place is because some disaster caused it to burp something out?
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