rfenst
15 years ago

Yeah, don't get lumped in with me Robert. That wouldn't be good for anybody. ;)

FuzzNJ wrote:




Who In their right mind would want to get into the middle of a domestic spat between the two of you?

Look, its an interesting and good hypothetical topic with many facets to think and read about, and to discuss. But, not for this particular cigar site. Other(s), yes. Cbid, no.

And, for what it is worth- just the sound of Rush's voice makes me ill.
FuzzNJ
  • FuzzNJ
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
15 years ago

Who In their right mind would want to get into the middle of a domestic spat between the two of you?

rfenst wrote:



Domestic? You 😰 suggesting Fuzz is gonna hafta slap a bitch?
jpotts
15 years ago
Once again, Fuzz shows what a sucker he his.

CALLER: It was owned by the Bissell Corporation. We made overbed tables all over the country -- United States, local -- and we had decent profit going. We had decent medical benefits --

The company in question makes over-the-bed tables for hospitals.

This is from the Am Fab website:

With a majority of our products being hand crafted by expertly trained teams in Galesburg, MI, we have a proven track record of high quality products and world class on time shipping performance. We offer a quick order turn around time and superb customer service. We are known throughout the industry for our ability to specialize in customization and small run capabilities. Our convenient midwest location provides easy access to the Continental U.S. and Canada. Combine all this and you have a company ready to meet your requirements for today's healthcare environment.

The front of their website proudly denotes they have American Made products, and to be honest, I don't doubt it. Bissel - the principle owner of Am Fab, just opened up a 500,000 sq. ft. factory around Chicago.

And for your information there Fuzz, Chicago is one of the more famous cities in the US. They are headquartered in Grand Rapid, MI (another city in the US, in case you were wondering). In fact, Jennifer Granholm - that failed leftist dingbat gov. that we (thankfully) just got rid of - not only touted Bissel as an example of how you can make all-American products, she also PROUDLY boasts how they put up a large R&D facility in Walker, Michigan.

http://www.michigan.gov/granholm/0,1607,7-168-23442_21974-200534--,00.html 

Bissell, Inc. - Bissell, Inc. is one of the world's largest and oldest suppliers and manufacturers of floor-care products, including sweepers, vacuums, deep-cleaning machines, and cleaning formulas. Bissell plans to invest approximately $9 million in an expansion and the opening of an innovation center at its facility in Walker. The innovation center would be a centralized location for research and development related to Bissell's new and existing product lines. The project is expected to create 214 jobs, including 106 directly by the company. An economic analysis conducted by the MEDC estimates the project will generate an additional 108 indirect jobs. Based on the MEDC's recommendation, the MEGA board today approved a state tax credit valued at $2.4 million to help convince the company to invest in Michigan over a competing site in China. The city of Walker plans to support this project with a tax abatement and a 12-year industrial facilities tax abatement.

It is interesting to note that Bissel is being attacked by labor unions these days because they are canning people who are trying to unionize.

So, Fuzz posts something in the vain attempt to make a commie-loving point, and happens to post an outright lie. Next time, Fuzz, try checking stuff out before you post stuff that makes you look like the obvious doorknob you are.

jpotts
15 years ago

1: Incentivise job creation and innovation rather than just give personal tax cuts to the wealthy hoping for, or at least arguing that it creates jobs. For example, tax breaks for bringing back jobs that have been outsourced overseas, new technology industries that benefit the country. As far as the wealthy and the tax breaks, the discussion now is over 3%, from 36 to 39%, hardly anything that will break a wealthy person since it didn't 20 years ago under Clinton, but enough to bring in a great deal of additional revenue.

2: A new business would be great and the wealthy person would be able to qualify for the incentives I mentioned in 1. Sure their investment is used as capital for a lot of things, so is the money you and I put away in whatever 401k's, Roth's or any other investment and tax breaks are given for some to encourage certain investments. What would create more jobs, the sale of one plane, or creating the conditions where bringing more jobs back or incentivising long term jobs for more people so that even more people have the ability to purchase, maybe not a plane, but together the value of thousands of planes?

Do you have evidence that trickle down economics, or as Bush Sr. said "Voodoo economics" has worked for the country, rather than the top 5-10%?

FuzzNJ wrote:




This is utterly laughable.

First, putting up incentives for creating jobs only leads to jobs that pay lower, and have less upward mobility. That's because the employer will kee the job as low pay as possible, to maximize the profit from the free money.

Because, frankly, if the incentives does not - at a minimum - cover the cost of the job (and all of the money that goes into the benefits and taxes paid out), then no one in their right frickin' mind will hire the person for the incentive.

They did this with Bill Clinton's crime bill. The end cost paid out to local municipalities was something like $10,000 to cover the cost of a job whose base salary at the time was something like $20,000. And, it nowhere near covered the costs of the public pension, medical benefits, or other types of insurance. By the time that all that is factored in, the incentive maybe covers one-third of the actual cost to hire a cop.

Basically, Fuzz you're advocating taking from the producers - which are businesses and corporations - and then giving it back to them in the forms of "incentives" which NEVER cover the costs of the jobs in the first place. This is mainly because a huge chunk of the money is consumed in administrative overhead and ourright graft and fraud (not to mention the redirection of funds that occurs often in government).

Furthermore, trickle-down economics was the driver for the boom in the computer industry. There were lots of computers available back in the mid-1970s, when Carter was in office. However, because of Carter's Keynesean approach, no single business in their right mind would shell-out the money because either the margins weren't there, and/or they couldn't justify the costs.

That all changed when Reagan cut taxes, and individuals and businesses had the extra cash to spend. People purchased more products. Profit margins increased, and businesses could now cost-justify the expense of technology.

I know this because this is what happened with my family business. We had to keep the books manually, and at times we could barely make payroll during the Carter years. After Reagan's tax cuts, we had the liquid cash to purchase a mid-range computer system, and pay for customized software. That's because they could cost-justify the initial expense- which was substantial at that time - and realize a cost-savings ove a period of years. You can't do that if you're on a cash-only basis with your suppliers.

So, in short, the very PC you're using to type your inane and clueless drivel is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what comes out of trickle-down economics.

I lived through the Carter years, and the Reagan years. I know what it was like. I know what happened to our family business, and why. You must have either lived in a cave, or spent most of your youth continually rubbing one out to gay porn. Either way, your assertion that trickle-down economics didn't work is utterly moronic.

Fuzz...you are nieve at best, and a clueless dolt at the worst. I'm betting on the latter.
robertknyc
15 years ago

FuzzNJ

why would anyone pay attention to someone with such
lack of control that he would end up "shopping" for
prescription pain killers, and has had three failed
marriage with women he met on the computer, and
who makes fun of the disabled?

RICKAMAVEN wrote:



Rick,
Why would anyone elect a guy for president whose only claim to "fame" is that he was a community organizer, associated with radicals and never ran anything in his life?
tailgater
15 years ago

Talking about a short attention span, perhaps you need some time in front of a mirror. The only statement I have made here is:

"Tax cuts and subsidies for specific groups won't
always produce the positive economic impact desired."

I have zero idea what the caller's point really was, but I stand by my generalized comment reprinted above. Stop bringing me into your personal bull**** with Fuzz.

rfenst wrote:




Personal BS?

Wow. Sorry you were forced to read this thread.
tailgater
15 years ago

Well, I'm not comfortable trying to read the mind of the caller to determine what his ultimate point was, I did notice the point that I was talking about.

"The liberal mind has a short attention span."

This was necessary, why?

FuzzNJ wrote:



I'm not asking you to read the guys mind.
For crying out loud, he initiated his topic with Rush by stating that capitalism is a form of slavery.
How much mind reading do you need to think that's his intended topic?

But if you like one aspect of his discussion regarding tax breaks, etc. that's your perogative.

But remember this: the guy is comparing capitalism to slavery.
He's a wack job.
And he's YOUR example to make your point regarding taxes.

Bravo again.

HockeyDad
15 years ago

1: Incentivise job creation and innovation rather than just give personal tax cuts to the wealthy hoping for, or at least arguing that it creates jobs. For example, tax breaks for bringing back jobs that have been outsourced overseas, new technology industries that benefit the country. As far as the wealthy and the tax breaks, the discussion now is over 3%, from 36 to 39%, hardly anything that will break a wealthy person since it didn't 20 years ago under Clinton, but enough to bring in a great deal of additional revenue.

FuzzNJ wrote:




We already do all of this. This is one of the reasons the US tax code is so complicated and riddled with organized corruption. Nobody is proposing to raise taxes on the "rich" so we can do more incentives.

Raising the highest tax bracket from 36% to 39% will not break any wealthy person. That never was the issue. The issue is whether the government knows best about how to use that money. One thing that is guaranteed is that whatever the "rich" used that money for, that expenditure is immediately eliminated. Maybe is was for a new business, CDs in the bank, a Lear jet, or any number of other possibilities. Now it is eliminated. That will produce a trickle down.

Now the government has the money, errr revenue. Do we trust they will put it to good use? Enough good use to offset the trickle down? Maybe increase welfare, maybe scholarships for Italians, maybe give it to other countries, maybe use it for economic development, maybe give it to Big Oil, maybe reduce budget deficits, or maybe use it to invade Libya. Whatever they decide, if you support the tax increase, you must support how the government uses it and they'll let you know when they feel like it. You can't say "I support the tax increase if the money is used for insert blank."

HockeyDad
15 years ago

Do you have evidence that trickle up economics has worked for the country, rather than the top 5-10%?

FuzzNJ wrote:




Kinda neat how that works, isn't it. (The whole trick is to be in the top 10%)
jpotts
15 years ago

Now the government has the money, errr revenue. Do we trust they will put it to good use? Enough good use to offset the trickle down? Maybe increase welfare, maybe scholarships for Italians, maybe give it to other countries, maybe use it for economic development, maybe give it to Big Oil, maybe reduce budget deficits, or maybe use it to invade Libya. Whatever they decide, if you support the tax increase, you must support how the government uses it and they'll let you know when they feel like it. You can't say "I support the tax increase if the money is used for insert blank."

HockeyDad wrote:



To summarize:

Unemployment checks are the best form of economic stimulus.




(Globalization rocks, dude!)
Users browsing this topic