HockeyDad
14 years ago

They are having what they call 'teach ins' where people who are experts in their fields come down and speak and answer questions so everyone can learn. I find this refreshing and honest.

FuzzNJ wrote:



Have you gone to listen or as a speaker?

I haven't. They can't afford my fee.

FuzzNJ
14 years ago

Have you gone to listen or as a speaker?

I haven't.

HockeyDad wrote:



Me neither. I have watched a few of the videos though. Some interesting stuff.


They can't afford my fee.

HockeyDad wrote:



Isn't that super.
FuzzNJ
14 years ago
My wife just made me go into the attic to retrieve a comfortor that was stored in the guest bedroom and I'm grumpy because I don't like going into the attic.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

My wife just made me go into the attic to retrieve a comfortor that was stored in the guest bedroom and I'm grumpy because I don't like going into the attic.

FuzzNJ wrote:




It is better than going back into the closet.
ZRX1200
14 years ago
What about the closet?
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Me neither. I have watched a few of the videos though. Some interesting stuff.

FuzzNJ wrote:





Which ones? Where are these videos?
MikeyRavioli
14 years ago

Ding! Our conversation has lead to something and that's great. Thanks for engaging in a fairly reasonable discussion. I can understand that sentiment, I really can. I am more sympathetic to that idea I suppose because to me the entire thing is so complicated I won't pretend to know all the answers.

FuzzNJ wrote:



I don't know all the answers or any of the answers but before I would go to the lengths that these people are going to I would have more ammunition than shaking my fist. If I made that kind of stink (get it - they are stinky)🐴 - I would have a specific point.


See my point? Focusing on the negative aspects of one movement and not on another, even though you say you don't associate with either, still shows where you lean, whether it's politically or with whom you feel more comfortable associating yourself with socio-economically.



I never hid my leanings. I am a centrist with a lean to the right politically. Socio-economically I am an 45 year old Director in a very succesful company, a suburban home owner, who would be considered upper middle class. Do I have more in common with the tea party than OWS? Sure. Do I hear things I like from both sides? Sure. Do I hear things I don't like from both sides? Sure.

By the way - hate is not exclusive to tea party events. Yes the Post is a rag but this article was online today:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_hate_in_zuccotti_KyGNaMM6eLBirVJN24fEEP 
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

It is better than going back into the closet.

HockeyDad wrote:



Something someone who has never left the closet would not know, so stop talking about stuff you don't know girlfriend. /kiss
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

I never hid my leanings. I am a centrist with a lean to the right politically. Socio-economically I am an 45 year old Director in a very succesful company, a suburban home owner, who would be considered upper middle class. Do I have more in common with the tea party than OWS? Sure. Do I hear things I like from both sides? Sure. Do I hear things I don't like from both sides? Sure.

MikeyRavioli wrote:



There really is no such thing as a centrist. Either you have a position or you don't. You sound like someone who may be more socially liberal and fiscally conservative, like a blue dog, correct me if I'm wrong. A centrist is someone who usually doesn't want to take a stand so as not to offend anyone, not cause waves, just fit in with everyone. Nothing wrong with that really, but someone who is the least bit interested or informed as you seem to be, a centrist is not a label that fits.


By the way - hate is not exclusive to tea party events. Yes the Post is a rag but this article was online today:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_hate_in_zuccotti_KyGNaMM6eLBirVJN24fEEP 

MikeyRavioli wrote:



Ok, you don't find the fact that someone who is a centrist keeps making arguments against the OWS protests while defending the tea party and never the other way around, not once, to any other poster here regardless of how insane their arguments are, just a little bit strange? C'mon. Really? I mean taking on an illogical point from anyone arguing against me, plenty to choose from over a couple hundred posts, to prove you are a centrist who agrees and disagrees with points from both movements could have solidified your centrist position ever so slightly. I'm not saying this to be argumentative either, just pointing out something I think should be obvious.
MACS
14 years ago

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
THIS DOCUMENT WAS ACCEPTED BY THE NYC GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON SEPTEMBER 29, 2011

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. Does it matter? You signed a document saying you'd pay and you didn't... whether it was because you lost your job or because you bought more house than you could afford does not matter... you said you'd pay and didn't. Get the f*ck out.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. YOUR Government GAVE them the money... vote out the asspipes who voted to do so.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. Not sure of the veracity of this claim, but if it's true, refuse to give these corporations your patronage.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. I've never eaten tainted food...

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. I'm against animal torture, but for scientific research... a bit conflicted, but if a monkey has to die to save people... so be it.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
Maybe because unions rape the f*ck out of corporations? Just a guess.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. Horsesh*t. The students didn't have to incur the debt, they did it themselves. PAY YOUR F**ING BILLS! Oh, and now education is a "right"? Get real, idiots.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. Maybe because the government passes bills like NAFTA? Companies are in business to make money. If our government would quit cutting into the profits in the form of exorbitant taxes, maybe they'd stay here?

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. This needs to change.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. This has to change, too.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. No argument here, either.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. Yeah... the LIBERAL media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

FuzzNJ wrote:



Meh. Some points are valid. Some are ridiculous.
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

Meh. Some points are valid. Some are ridiculous.

MACS wrote:



Fair enough and you actually read them and considered them. Your comments on a couple of things on the list indicate to me that you don't fully understand the issue and why the situation needs to be addressed, but you have done more than the majority of those who have dismissed the OWS movement, you read something they actually wrote as opposed to what someone said they said and/or wrote. Find the stuff you agree with and do whatever you can, even if it's just an email to your Senator, to put pressure on them to address those issues.
HockeyDad
14 years ago
How 'bout those teach-in videos? That might be a good place for MACS to learn.
FuzzNJ
HockeyDad
14 years ago
I was thinking more along the lines of those teach-in videos from OWS that you said you watched. The ones with experts and stuff.
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

I was thinking more along the lines of those teach-in videos from OWS that you said you watched. The ones with experts and stuff.

HockeyDad wrote:



Well good for trying to think, but I wasn't posting that for you. If you are interested I'm sure you can find videos on any topic you may be interested in. There is even one on the communist manifesto.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Well good for trying to think, but I wasn't posting that for you. If you are interested I'm sure you can find videos on any topic you may be interested in. There is even one on the communist manifesto.

FuzzNJ wrote:




So you are not going to share the OWS teach-in videos that you watched and found refreshing and honest? That doesn't sound very refreshing and honest. Are you sure you actually saw the videos or did you just hear about the teach-ins on Keith Olbermann's show.
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

So you are not going to share the OWS teach-in videos that you watched and found refreshing and honest? That doesn't sound very refreshing and honest. Are you sure you actually saw the videos or did you just hear about the teach-ins on Keith Olbermann's show.

HockeyDad wrote:



You caught me, they don't exist, I made it all up.
HockeyDad
14 years ago
Well I guess we'll never get MACS to understand the issue and why the situation needs to be addressed.
FuzzNJ
14 years ago
Allright people. No more worries. A saviour has arrived. All is well. All is well.

GOP Presidential Candidates Are Asking Glenn Beck To Explain 'Occupy Wall St' To Them In Secret Meetings

Glenn Beck says that GOP Presidential candidates, members of Congress, business leaders, and members of the media have all asked him for secret meetings so that he can explain Occupy Wall St. to them.

Alas, he doesn't name names. And apparently he has declined to do so.

But he is going to explain it all on his show tonight.

Judging from past statements -- Beck has said he believes the group is comprised of "Marxist radicals" who will "come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you...these guys are worse than Robespierre from the French Revolution...they'll kill everybody" -- it's probably not going to be good.

If Herman Cain starts investing all his book profits in gold and cigarettes we'll know he's taking Beck's advice to heart.

http://www.businessinsider.com/glenn-beck-occupy-wall-st-secret-meeings-2011-10#ixzz1bjrTGK00 
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

Well I guess we'll never get MACS to understand the issue and why the situation needs to be addressed.

HockeyDad wrote:



Tragedy avoided. Glenn Beck is here to help.
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