HockeyDad
14 years ago
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.—A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1189, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2005-27.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.
776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.—A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force:
(1) Which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or herself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest;
(2) When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have escaped; or
(3) When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given, and:
(a) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others; or
(b) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 75-64; s. 1, ch. 87-147; s. 54, ch. 88-381; s. 1191, ch. 97-102.
776.051 Use of force in resisting arrest or making an arrest or in the execution of a legal duty; prohibition.—
(1) A person is not justified in the use of force to resist an arrest by a law enforcement officer, or to resist a law enforcement officer who is engaged in the execution of a legal duty, if the law enforcement officer was acting in good faith and he or she is known, or reasonably appears, to be a law enforcement officer.
(2) A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, is not justified in the use of force if the arrest or execution of a legal duty is unlawful and known by him or her to be unlawful.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1192, ch. 97-102; s. 1, ch. 2008-67.
776.06 Deadly force.—
(1) The term “deadly force” means force that is likely to cause death or great bodily harm and includes, but is not limited to:
(a) The firing of a firearm in the direction of the person to be arrested, even though no intent exists to kill or inflict great bodily harm; and
(b) The firing of a firearm at a vehicle in which the person to be arrested is riding.
(2)(a) The term “deadly force” does not include the discharge of a firearm by a law enforcement officer or correctional officer during and within the scope of his or her official duties which is loaded with a less-lethal munition. As used in this subsection, the term “less-lethal munition” means a projectile that is designed to stun, temporarily incapacitate, or cause temporary discomfort to a person without penetrating the person’s body.
(b) A law enforcement officer or a correctional officer is not liable in any civil or criminal action arising out of the use of any less-lethal munition in good faith during and within the scope of his or her official duties.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 99-272.
776.07 Use of force to prevent escape.—
(1) A law enforcement officer or other person who has an arrested person in his or her custody is justified in the use of any force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to prevent the escape of the arrested person from custody.
(2) A correctional officer or other law enforcement officer is justified in the use of force, including deadly force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to prevent the escape from a penal institution of a person whom the officer reasonably believes to be lawfully detained in such institution under sentence for an offense or awaiting trial or commitment for an offense.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 7, ch. 95-283; s. 1193, ch. 97-102.
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.
776.085 Defense to civil action for damages; party convicted of forcible or attempted forcible felony.—
(1) It shall be a defense to any action for damages for personal injury or wrongful death, or for injury to property, that such action arose from injury sustained by a participant during the commission or attempted commission of a forcible felony. The defense authorized by this section shall be established by evidence that the participant has been convicted of such forcible felony or attempted forcible felony, or by proof of the commission of such crime or attempted crime by a preponderance of the evidence.
(2) For the purposes of this section, the term “forcible felony” shall have the same meaning as in s. 776.08.
(3) Any civil action in which the defense recognized by this section is raised shall be stayed by the court on the motion of the civil defendant during the pendency of any criminal action which forms the basis for the defense, unless the court finds that a conviction in the criminal action would not form a valid defense under this section.
(4) In any civil action where a party prevails based on the defense created by this section:
(a) The losing party, if convicted of and incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime, shall, as determined by the court, lose any privileges provided by the correctional facility, including, but not limited to:
1. Canteen purchases;
2. Telephone access;
3. Outdoor exercise;
4. Use of the library; and
5. Visitation.
(b) The court shall award a reasonable attorney’s fee to be paid to the prevailing party in equal amounts by the losing party and the losing party’s attorney; however, the losing party’s attorney is not personally responsible if he or she has acted in good faith, based on the representations of his or her client. If the losing party is incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime and has insufficient assets to cover payment of the costs of the action and the award of fees pursuant to this paragraph, the party shall, as determined by the court, be required to pay by deduction from any payments the prisoner receives while incarcerated.
(c) If the losing party is incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime, the court shall issue a written order containing its findings and ruling pursuant to paragraphs (a) and (b) and shall direct that a certified copy be forwarded to the appropriate correctional institution or facility.
History.—s. 1, ch. 87-187; s. 72, ch. 96-388.
TMCTLT
14 years ago

Oh, so now you turn around and attack and blame my profession and by extension myself? Ad homonym abusive!!!
Want to convey info, thoughts and ideas? Stop directly insulting people. You will gain a hell of a lot more credibility with substance over name calling.

BTW, what do you do for a living?

rfenst wrote:





I'm an ignorant residential home remodeler Robert why? And your point is taken, I'll admit that folks like him tend to piss me off because no matter how hard you try to get them to see things logically it will never happen. Look I'm not gonna sit here and say that things have not been done in this country that were/are racially motivated and that they never happen anymore. But this stuff of the black community turning it into a black / white race thing and blowing it up into a National issue is just rediculous!! My apologies for not holding your profession in a brighter light as I am certain there are many good folks like yourself in the profession....like mine it's the rest who give it a bad rap.
MikeyRavioli
14 years ago
So to make a long story short.......

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.


The question to me is did he have reasonable belief that the kid was there to commit a home invasion robbery or burglary?
Its hard to prove he didn't.
HockeyDad
14 years ago
The "Stand Your Ground" law as coined by the media actually made pretty much just two changes to existing law.

1. Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force

2. You do not have a duty and obligation to retreat first before using force.


In some states, if you are attacked or even if an intruder is coming through your front door, your duty is to run out the back door if possible before defending yourself.
Stinkdyr
14 years ago
Can't we white-hispanic people and white-black people all just get along??


🌫
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Can't we white-hispanic people and white-black people all just get along??


🌫

Stinkdyr wrote:




No need to drag the whites into this!
BuckyB93
14 years ago

So to make a long story short.......

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.


The question to me is did he have reasonable belief that the kid was there to commit a home invasion robbery or burglary?
Its hard to prove he didn't.

MikeyRavioli wrote:




WTF is that?
HockeyDad
14 years ago

WTF is that?

BuckyB93 wrote:




You can't throw bombs underhand in Florida. Only overhead motion is allowed.
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

I'm an ignorant residential home remodeler Robert why? And your point is taken, I'll admit that folks like him tend to piss me off because no matter how hard you try to get them to see things logically it will never happen. Look I'm not gonna sit here and say that things have not been done in this country that were/are racially motivated and that they never happen anymore. But this stuff of the black community turning it into a black / white race thing and blowing it up into a National issue is just rediculous!! My apologies for not holding your profession in a brighter light as I am certain there are many good folks like yourself in the profession....like mine it's the rest who give it a bad rap.

TMCTLT wrote:



I was curious about what you do because it sometimes gives a contextual background to where people are "coming from". Also, certain professions have a negative stereotype that gets broadly applied to all individuals in that profession. This is, IMO, a form of non-racial/ethnic prejudice that many can relate to.

Don't let people who don't see things your way piss you off. Keep explaining until you conclude it is impossible for them to consider your point. And then, don't take it personally. At the same time, keep listening to their opposing opinion and keep your mind open. That keeps the discussion friendly and far more productive- at least that is the way I see it as one who spends a lot of time negotiating, debating and "arguing".



BuckyB93
14 years ago

You can't throw bombs underhand in Florida. Only overhead motion is allowed.

HockeyDad wrote:




S#i+. Guess I have to resize my bombs then. If I have to lob all my bombs at the darkies and left wing mobs overhand, I'll need Tommy John surgery in no time.

{I wonder if ObamaCare covers Tommy John surgery?}
dpnewell
14 years ago

WTF is that?

BuckyB93 wrote:



It's part of the phrase "unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb".

I.E., if you see some dude ready to toss a bomb, hand grenade, IED, molotov cocktail, etc., and it would be reasonable to believe that the result of this action would cause death or injury to others, you can legally waste his arse.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

It's part of the phrase "unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb".

I.E., if you see some dude ready to toss a bomb, hand grenade, IED, molotov cocktail, etc., and it would be reasonable to believe that the result of this action would cause death or injury to others, you can legally waste his arse.

dpnewell wrote:




Unless he is wearing a hoodie.
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

Robert, you are a lawyer and from Florida.
Can you clarify the "stand your ground" statute as it relates to this case?
Being a LI NY'er I do not think I fully understand it.

From my uneducated opinion it sounds like Zimmerman made some really terrible decisions, but there is no law against being a dumb ass.
And while it may seem like a terrible law, based on what I have read, it doesn't seem like a law was broken.
Of course its the survivor of the situation that gets to tell the tale but if he was actually arrested it would be the states burden to prove otherwise.
I don't see how the state can do that.

MikeyRavioli wrote:



No. It hasn't been legally tested enough to have been fleshed out by the courts. It is just a wordy statute subject in part to interpretations that may vary widely.

Anyhow, it is both immunity from arrest and, if necessary, a trial defense. One does not have a duty to attempt to flee before using deadly force in certain defined circumstances (and some vague circumstances too).

The contentious social issue here arises from the immunity from arrest portion. It gives a lot of discretion to the police and the prosecutor. Sometimes that is good. Other times that is bad.

Of course there are evidentiary difficulties for the prosecution when one of the key witnesses here is dead. He cannot testify. But, there still are the potential statements mad by an accused; eye witness testimony, obvious physical evidence and forensic evidence among other types of evidence, all available to the prosecution in its decision to arrest and prosecute.

Here, this particular law gave Zimmerman the legal benefit of the doubt for now.
BuckyB93
14 years ago

It's part of the phrase "unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb".

I.E., if you see some dude ready to toss a bomb, hand grenade, IED, molotov cocktail, etc., and it would be reasonable to believe that the result of this action would cause death or injury to others, you can legally waste his arse.

dpnewell wrote:




Again WTF? I can’t throw them? You expect me to hold onto them? Can I kick them?

That could lead to some serious pain and anguish. There are laws against pain and anguish ain’t there? Which one takes precedence?
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Again WTF? I can’t throw them? You expect me to hold onto them? Can I kick them?

That could lead to some serious pain and anguish. There are laws against pain and anguish ain’t there? Which one takes precedence?

BuckyB93 wrote:





You can kick it as long as it does not discharge. Warning, if you play soccer with a pipebomb, somebody will shoot you.
DrMaddVibe
14 years ago

You can kick it as long as it does not discharge. Warning, if you play soccer with a pipebomb, somebody will shoot you.

HockeyDad wrote:




Now THAT'S a soccer game I'd watch![whip]
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

So to make a long story short.......

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.


The question to me is did he have reasonable belief that the kid was there to commit a home invasion robbery or burglary?
Its hard to prove he didn't.

MikeyRavioli wrote:




No, that is not the question as I see it. My opinion is that the question is:

Presuming Tayvon started a fight with Zimmerman without provocation from Zimmerman, whether Zimmerman reasonably believed that shooting Tayvon was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself (Zimmerman)?

At this point in time:

If the answer is reasonably considered to be "no", there is probable cause to believe he committed a crime and should be arrested.He still gets the defense at trial.

If the answere is "maybe", then there is not probable cuast and he should not be arrested.

If the answer is "yes", he should never beven be arrested.


Basically, the statute simply codifies a common trial defense (perhaps jury nullification) and also elevents it to both an official trial defense and arrest consideration y givinga basic framework for determining probable cause in certain matters.





(BTW, "reasonable" pertains to the actions of ther fictional "reasonably prudent person" not Zimmerman or his state of mind.)
BuckyB93
14 years ago

You can kick it as long as it does not discharge. Warning, if you play soccer with a pipebomb, somebody will shoot you.

HockeyDad wrote:



HA! Let them just try.

I can flop with the best of them and then they'll get a red card and booted from the game.
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

You can kick it as long as it does not discharge. Warning, if you play soccer with a pipebomb, somebody will shoot you.

HockeyDad wrote:



What about when my 13-year old kid uses his precision soccer shot to kick a water-ball across the pool from 25 feet away- and directly hits me in the face as intended, then laughs while warning me not to F'k with him anymore in front of other people? Can I shoot him if he has another ball right there at his foot and could strike again at any moment?





(BTW, he has scored at least one goal in every game; had a couple hat-tricks- if you count assists with goals- and has already scored more goals then his entire team did last season and we aren't at mid-point yet.)
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