Liberals and conservatives will still be disgusted with each other after Jews and Arabs have kissed and made up. It is interesting, isn't it, how intelligent people can be presented the same data and draw such polarized conclusions from it.

Rick is an intelligent man, and we don't agree on very much politically possibly excepting U.S. relations with Israel. I generally find Democrats better companions than conservatives, but I don't trust them with my money. Clearly, they cannot be trusted. Unfortunately, neither can the Republicans.

X, it was you who cast the first stone. You blame "conservatives" for making the "good look bad". I was just pointing out some GENERAL differences between the parties. Your sarcastic "thank you" implies that you were somehow offended by that. Why? True, not all dems are liberal, just as not all republicans are conservative (or at least right wing). But the general statement is true that the democrats use liberal reasoning to dictate fiscal spending. And vice versa. We all claim to be "moderate" in that we are free thinkers. But we all cling to general ideas that separate the parties. We usually argue over individuals within the party lines, but we should instead discuss the policies themselves. I hear time and again that the Bush led republicans are mere puppets to "big oil", but when somebody uses a truism like "tax and spend liberal" it seems to ruffle a few feathers. We can debate a specific topic, or we can make general comments. Either way, please don't be offended by it. Lest you show your Liberal side....

Just yanking your chain 'gater. I don't easily offend. Actually I agree that the policies and not the men making them are the real issues. It is interesting to explore individual motives sometimes though. I enjoy your posts and like to return barbs in fun. Don't YOU be offended either. Okay?

I've been known to be offensive, but never offended. Don't worry about me. I'm thick headed. I mean thick skinned.

JonR --- if you get any mail from any part of the government, do what i do. mark it deceased and give it back to the post office.

Tailgater I take serious offense to the things you wrote about unions. I have been a member of the International Association of Firefighters and now belong to the American Federation of Teachers. I want to explain to you something about all of the years (21) that I was a professional firefighter. We earned every penny. We worked harder in 24 hours and took more risks in a month than some desk-jockey whose major risk is complaining about his portfolio does in his lifetime. Now as a teacher our union contract calls for me to be in school from 07:10 am to 1400. Right! I leave between 1600 and 1700 every day. Don't even talk to me about summers off. Here in sunny Florida most teachers have to work during the summer thanks to the efforts of one of the wonderful Bush brothers. As for your "Unions epitomize the Liberal agenda: equal pay for unequal work."You are probably right. I have worked hard all of my life for unequal pay. Oh, sorry, isn't that what you meant? I chose both of these professions because I like to help people. I get a real kick out of working with HS kids. We used to say in the FD that if the city would just leave us alone and let us do our jobs everybody would be much better off. Unions have to lobby to protect the hardworking people trying to make an honest living from the unethical types that have dominated the news the past few months. Lots of remorse at Anderson et al for all of their out of work former employees. Thanks for listening.

Messier, good post. First of all, Thank You for your years as a firefighter. And God Bless you for choosing to become a teacher. But the fact that very important and credible jobs are supported by unions does not make the union system worthy in this day and age. Neither does the fact that real people work real hard in union jobs every day. I did not mean to imply that they don't. Strength in numbers is a good thing when done by choice. Here in Massachusetts, a recent Union strike by nurses caused terrible chaos at hospitals and could have resulted in undo deaths. Do you think each and every nurse on that picket line wanted to strike? And unions DO reward longevity before accomplishments. And the DO create an environment to allow mediocrity to thrive. And the DO surp much of the personal responsibility out from the very souls they claim to protect. I don't disagree that vital positions (such as your resume boasts) deserve a decent paycheck. But unions are not the answer. Too many evils. Like the fact that the teachers in my town adhere strictly to union guidelines regarding working hours. Cripes, I've never worked a 40 hour week in my life. But I don't need a union to fix that. It has become a crutch that is bigger than the disease it proposes to fix. And that is never a good thing. But welcome to the board, and don't worry: I have a lot of friends and family that belong to unions. I don't fault the people, I fault the system.

Thanks for the reply Tailgater. You do make valid points on which I will let the others on the board decide. However, I MUST say one more thing...I remember what it was like in our city before we as FF's formally organized. If you think police are a politically conservative group, you ain't seen nothing when compared to firefighters. Our guys were sick of being taken advantage of by the politcos with no legal recourse or protection. We didn't do it to strike, we did it to even the playing field. Well, enough of this...Had any good cigars lately?? Best, Mess

A union to collectively address mutual problems is not a bad thing ... corporations can and have taken advantage of people, a practice which gave rise to unions in the first place. Unions too can be abusive, however ... I've seen firsthand, the protection of the weak, the unwilling, the inept, the drunks and drug abusers. My life was (seriously) threatened by an abusive labor leader because I preculed a truck driver from moving an extremely hazardous load until such time as he'd corrected it ... I've seen fork lift operators so buzzed they drove though walls and one who completely blew away a first aid station in the fab department and watched as their union leaders successfully defended them and held the umbrella of protection over their inept backs as the company I worked for went down the drain due to the time it tood to bring our product to market and the cost associated with doing so as compared to comparable products built in Japan and Italy ... I have never put the police and firefighters union in that category, but while I recognize that good teachers DO exist, will tell you that in my observation, far too many incompetent teachers are also being protected by their powerful unions ...