I've been on this forum for a long time, and for many of the years I attempted to engage in open conversation with other members. I learned my lesson. I have realized that I have a much more enjoyable outlook on this forum if my entire goal is to bloviate for a bit and mock people.

A conversation requires equal participation from all members, and honestly a large number of people have neither the reading comprehension nor the math skills required to actually be participants in a conversation. [/quote]

bloviate?????

OK, since when is a prerequisite to know calculus or trigonometry, in order to have a intelligent conversation? I've learned a whole lot listening to my children, and trust me they don't know either one, well at least not yet anyways.

Equal participation? when you already stated that we are wrong and you are right, comes off a bit arrogant to say the least.

You posed this question here in these forums, while I'm a n00b by anyone's standards here I can easily tell that sarcasm, shenanigans, and jackassery is the norm here. If you want a real serious discussion about this I'm pretty sure you can find a more upscale forum discussion group somewhere, that will be better to your liking.

However, the fault is not with the science. It is with those who twist it to lie and manipulate.

People do this with religion. But it is not the religion that is evil.

Marketing and spin aside - if they can be separated out – I think science is out best hope for our future.

Ogie?[/quote]

Spelled it phonetically- Augie was Doggie Daddy's (Jimmy Durante impersonation) dear ole son in Hanna Barbera cartoon.

I don't know that science can be salvaged, Brew, but I hope so. Religion is sometimes driven by zealots and or well intentioned folks for a myriad of reasons, spiritual reward, altruism, power, money, fear, hatred (note the exploding vests) but science is mostly motivated by markets under the guise of man's salvation IMHO.

Because I've worked with them in the past.

You want to see one of the biggest group of brain-dead lemmings? They usually have a PhD next to their name.

[quote=Brewha]The study of science made our modern life style possible. And the scientific field is more honest and honorable than many others that come to mind. While the body of scientific knowledge is replete with errors, they are found and corrected as time goes on. Science does not create dogma – that is the realm of others.[/quote]

Hah! That'a a laugh!

Half of that lifestyle was given to you by people who were not scientists by any stretch of the imagination.

That's one of the biggest myths, right up there with how the government created the Internet (along with Al Gore).

I've been on this forum for a long time, and for many of the years I attempted to engage in open conversation with other members. I learned my lesson. I have realized that I have a much more enjoyable outlook on this forum if my entire goal is to bloviate for a bit and mock people.

[/quote]

Well, the upside to this is the fact that you now realize you can be trained.

Wanna doggie biscut?

Durante – geeze, it’s been years!

Half of that lifestyle was given to you by people who were not scientists by any stretch of the imagination.

That's one of the biggest myths, right up there with how the government created the Internet (along with Al Gore).

[/quote]

I understand that way you feel. But you will change your mind when science finds a cure for senility . . .

Just sayin'

Just sayin'[/quote]

No I won't.

Honestly, it is better for all of us that Rickamaven does not have full control of his faculties (or bladder function).

OK, since when is a prerequisite to know calculus or trigonometry, in order to have a intelligent conversation? I've learned a whole lot listening to my children, and trust me they don't know either one, well at least not yet anyways.

Equal participation? when you already stated that we are wrong and you are right, comes off a bit arrogant to say the least.

You posed this question here in these forums, while I'm a n00b by anyone's standards here I can easily tell that sarcasm, shenanigans, and jackassery is the norm here. If you want a real serious discussion about this I'm pretty sure you can find a more upscale forum discussion group somewhere, that will be better to your liking.

[/quote]

Formal "Logic" has a foundation in algebra. If you cannot understand the basics of algebra, you are significantly less likely to form conclusions which are, for lack of a better word, rational. Think of it in the same way that knowing A+B=C would allow you to deduce B from A & C.

So I looked back at my first post in this thread, and you are correct, I used 2 question marks. However, if you note the phrasing, I wasn't asking anyone in particular that question, nor was I expecting an answer. These were rhetorical questions, as the immediately following sentence answered why one wouldn't. In other words, I went straight to the mocking. :)

Trust me, I'm just skipping the boring steps... ultimately any "conversation" on this place will reduce to individuals who don't actually read the posts they are arguing against yet are convinced they are wrong based on completely irrelevant information. I've danced this dance before.

As for sarcasm etc... you haven't been around long enough to see the truly ugly side of some of the arguments.

Wanna doggie biscut?

[/quote]

^ Here's a prime example of an individual who does not have a full grasp of math, and his arguments have always suffered.

Just admit that ruggie was right, and you'll feel better about yourself almost instantly.

Ah ruggie... couldn't understand the mathematical concept of "average"... In fact, if I recall, he had no grasp of any statistical methodology...

And you couldn't seem to grasp it either.

And people wonder why I just jump to the mocking without bothering to hear your response any longer....

And people wonder why I just jump to the mocking without bothering to hear your response any longer....[/quote]

Actually, I don't wonder at all . . . .

Captain Calculus?

Doctor Derivative?

Wait – Lieutenant Tenfingers?

And you couldn't seem to grasp it either.

And people wonder why I just jump to the mocking without bothering to hear your response any longer....[/quote]

No Victor, I had a grasp of it.

You just didn't like the fact that populations need to adjusted for size for apples-to-apples comparisons.

Plus, after the last 10 years of mostly working with people who have PhDs and Masters, I've come to conclude that the higher-education system in this country is basically f**ked. Which explains why so many of these "knowledgable" people with credentials make a boatload of really, really dumb decisions.

I and do mean dumb. Really, really...really dumb

However, I digress.

This is where I springboard into my “education should be a public trust and not a business” speech . . . .

You just didn't like the fact that populations need to adjusted for size for apples-to-apples comparisons.

Plus, after the last 10 years of mostly working with people who have PhDs and Masters, I've come to conclude that the higher-education system in this country is basically f**ked. Which explains why so many of these "knowledgable" people with credentials make a boatload of really, really dumb decisions.

I and do mean dumb. Really, really...really dumb

However, I digress.[/quote]

.... yeah, I remember. You had no grasp of the concept that an average was already a normalized (adjusted for population size) number.

That's what I find so hilarious about your arguments... you won't stop talking about how stupid educated people are, yet you fail to grasp the simplest of statistical principles. It's almost like... maybe you couldn't successfully get educated, and now you're really pissed at anyone who did.

Naaah... that couldn't be it.

Your apology is accepted.

That's what I find so hilarious about your arguments... you won't stop talking about how stupid educated people are, yet you fail to grasp the simplest of statistical principles. It's almost like... maybe you couldn't successfully get educated, and now you're really pissed at anyone who did.

Naaah... that couldn't be it.

Your apology is accepted.

[/quote]

Victor, it's not my fault that your graduating class was chock-full to the brim with dumba**es.

By the way, I love it when someone with a PhD ins some sort of computer sciences (not mentioning you, here, Victor) has to go to the Internet to print off something to tell me I'm wrong.

This is after the fact that I had to explain to them how an actual computer works.

Again: the majority of people coming out of these PhD and Masters programs are complete idiots. Which is also why your use of the top-end statistic was wrong, and needed to be averaged out.

Education and knowledge is cumulative across a population, Victor. It is not a static property.

Sorry, you still lose. You owe someone an apology.