SH is claming Victor as his??????

Brewha wrote:

Victor my poor misguided and completly lost victor


Do you actuallly listen to yourself? Of course you do!!! Just admit it, since your the type that likes to hear themselves talk. You remind me of one of my favorite sayings that I like to say. I'll give you the translated version so I'm hopping you can understand it.


You talk like a parrot, says what he knows, but doesn't know what he says.

SweetHavok wrote:

I do believe that the discrimination is on their agenda. I have heard the line of reasoning that “we don’t want our children exposed to people like that”. This gets thrown at teachers too. And it is nothing more than people using their children to push a bigoted agenda.

I don’t believe that BSA teaches sexual orientation. So this should not be any more of an issue than having people of any religion or color in the group.

For all the good they do, their stance has been shining example of what not to do. Moral turpitude it is.

Brewha wrote:

Just saying I'm "misguided" and don't know what I am saying is not an actual argument against what I have said.

victor809 wrote:

I would not have allowed my children to join BSA if they had wanted to. That organization won't get a penny of my money and my kids will not leave our household without knowing we don't tolerate or support hatred and bigotry.

A few years ago, I was on the board of a community service organization. A BSA Troop sought a $500 donation for equipment it was truly in need of. I scuttled any notion of making the donation because BSA chose to discriminate against gays. Damn proud about it too.

rfenst wrote:

Is so.

dstieger wrote:

Some of you make it sound like all the scouts gather at meetings and the leaders discuss gays, non-christians, etc etc and have a bible study or something....WTH meetings have you seen this happening? It's like you have this image of a KKK rally. I don't recall any of this talk when I was a kid in scouts or even mentioned when I was a leader when my 1 son was involved for a while. We got together did whatever activity they needed to do to earn the 11ty billion badges, and had a little fun for an hour or so and that was about it. We weren't on some agenda to instill some sort of moral standard. As far as I'm concerned, it was fathers (and mothers sometimes) and sons spending time together. Most can do that anywhere outside of scouting, but there were (fun) things done in the scouts I probably never would do in my normal course of fatherhood, simply because it's not something I was brought up doing...woodworking, camping, etc. I dunno. To me it's just another way to spend a short amount of time with your son(s).

Good for you, Robert, for being so "damn proud about" not helping them out with something they were "truly in need of." I'm sure after you shot them down they went away thinking, "that really sucks...how will we further our anti-gay agenda? May God have mercy on his soul." Did you tell them why you didn't want to be generous?

daveincincy wrote:

I snoped this.
He's right.

tailgater wrote:

Dave... I'll trust you on what you say goes on at scouts... I've never been and hopefully will never have a reason to be anywhere near a boy scout troop.

But you did live in a slightly different era. What happens these days when a kid with two fathers (or mothers) is enrolled in the scouts? Do they allow him to join? Are they allowing his parents (or at least one) to attend whatever meetings? I'm honestly asking, because I don't know the protocols and procedures. I have a suspicion that this is where the entire thing started, but I don't know.

Because it's very much supposed to be a kid and his father participating, if the fathers of a boy are gay, I'm guessing the BSA and modern family structures are starting to butt heads.

victor809 wrote:

Dave... I'll trust you on what you say goes on at scouts... I've never been and hopefully will never have a reason to be anywhere near a boy scout troop.

But you did live in a slightly different era. What happens these days when a kid with two fathers (or mothers) is enrolled in the scouts? Do they allow him to join? Are they allowing his parents (or at least one) to attend whatever meetings? I'm honestly asking, because I don't know the protocols and procedures. I have a suspicion that this is where the entire thing started, but I don't know.

Because it's very much supposed to be a kid and his father participating, if the fathers of a boy are gay, I'm guessing the BSA and modern family structures are starting to butt heads.

victor809 wrote:

Oh, some of the shorter bus brethren here will whine about liberals ruining the world and having indoctrinated so many people that the scouts are now forced to only hire child molester scout leaders...

I mean, keeping gays out of the scouts for all these years has worked SO well... [sarcasm]

victor809 wrote:

This is the grey area.
I live in Massachusetts. My boy is not in the scouts. I don't know the "rules".
But it is my impression that, although they may forbid an openly gay father from being a troop leader, I never thought this would mean that the kid of gay couple couldn't join.
And I would find it difficult to believe that such an exclusion would ever be proposed in my town.

The BSA simply does NOT teach scouts to be anti-gay, regardless of what is exercised at the management level.
This is not to say that I agree or dissagree with their sentiment. Simply that it's not an "agenda" as some have suggested.

tailgater wrote:

This is the grey area.
I live in Massachusetts. My boy is not in the scouts. I don't know the "rules".
But it is my impression that, although they may forbid an openly gay father from being a troop leader, I never thought this would mean that the kid of gay couple couldn't join.
And I would find it difficult to believe that such an exclusion would ever be proposed in my town.

The BSA simply does NOT teach scouts to be anti-gay, regardless of what is exercised at the management level.
This is not to say that I agree or dissagree with their sentiment. Simply that it's not an "agenda" as some have suggested.

tailgater wrote:

Quite the contrary, I remember having least one obviously gay Scoutmaster whom I swear reminded me of a cross between Charles Nelson Reilly & Wally Cox. He was harmless as far as I knew, but while camping did odd things that made us feel uncomfortable such as invading our privacy and maintaining prolonged gazes around the campfire... Ran into him after I got older while dumping trash and he gave me that creepy Jeffrey Dahmer "stare" again.

During jamborees (competitive get togethers of troops) it wasn't all that unusual to run across "tent activity" (exhibitionism, exploration, etc.). It was there all along.We just ignored it & gravitated towards normal (not jerking) circles. However, openly accepting gay behavior will only promote it. No place for our children IMHO.

bloody spaniard wrote:

Ok Victor since you asked for it, lets start here shall we?

First off I'll ignore the first part of your sentence, since I'm pretty sure you already know where I stand on that one.

Lets see what liberals have done for protecting our children.

1) Liberal judges in their ultimate wisdom would rather have pedophiles go through therapy than go to prison, stating that prison doesn't correct the behavior it only punishes the criminal.

SweetHavok wrote:

2) The good old ACLU, bunch of liberals that love to twist our laws to a point that you don't even recognize them anymore. Have a history of defending pedophiles, in court cases.

3) Groups like the man boy love group would like us to find it acceptable for them to share their love with boys. Now this is just plain sick.

4) Liberals want to impose their ideas on us but not vice versa, God forbid we bring religion into the discussion.

Pedophiles have found the boy scouts an easy target in the past, so you are saying what that openly gay troop leaders and would reduce abuse? I think not. Keeping gays out of such a group, although not perfect is a much safer alternative. Don't know about you but I have kids, I would not knowingly expose them to danger, would you?

During jamborees (competitive get togethers of troops) it wasn't all that unusual to run across "tent activity" (exhibitionism, exploration, etc.). It was there all along.We just ignored it & gravitated towards normal (not jerking) circles. However, openly accepting gay behavior will only promote it. No place for our children IMHO.

bloody spaniard wrote:

However, openly accepting gay behavior will only promote it. No place for our children IMHO.

bloody spaniard wrote:

Ha...
First, my comment was a joke at how "well" it's worked in the past. (as in, the BSA and the priesthood.... surprisingly the two primary places which forbid gays... end up with all the little boy molestations).

victor809 wrote:

Second... you are convoluting gay with pedophile. Are all straight males trying to screw 10 year old girls? To accuse all gay males of wanting to screw little boys (which is what you're doing by saying that your kid would be safer if it isn't around gays) is the equivalent of saying that we can't have straight males around 10 year old girls.

victor809 wrote:

the kids don't learn to hate or discriminate against anyone.
It's not taught.
Therefore it's not an agenda.

tailgater wrote: