HockeyDad
12 years ago

Has anyone ever compared admin costs between the two?

teedubbya wrote:




Yes
DrMaddVibe
12 years ago

Insurance Manager: ‘We Have Yet To Have Someone Successfully Register On The Marketplace’


Overloaded websites and jammed phone lines frustrated consumers for a second day as they tried to sign up for health insurance under the nation’s historic health care overhaul.

That was putting pressure on the federal government and the states that are running their own insurance exchanges to fix the problems amid strong demand for the private insurance plans.

“I think I’m through with Hawaii Health Connector,” said Richard Gamberg, 61, of Honolulu, after tweeting messages to officials and complaining to state lawmakers on Wednesday. “They’ve got ads in the newspaper, they’ve got ads on the TV — it just flabbergasts me.”

He was among the would-be customers in Hawaii who were still unable to buy insurance policies online Wednesday, forcing them to turn directly to insurance companies to examine their options. In Oregon, officials said a faulty online calculator would not be fixed until late October.

The delays that continued Wednesday offered one good sign for President Barack Obama and supporters of his signature domestic policy achievement, demonstrating what appeared to be exceptionally high interest in the new system. But the problems also could dampen enthusiasm for the law as Republicans use it as a rallying cry to keep most of the federal government closed.

“It’s day two of health care reform, and we have yet to have someone successfully register on the marketplace,” said Matt Hadzick, manager of a Highmark retail insurance store in Allentown, Pa., where people could go to register for the online insurance marketplace. “The registration process is very slow, and at one point it just shuts down.”

The sweeping changes under the Affordable Care Act include federal subsidies to make insurance more affordable for low-income consumers and preventing health insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. That will open the door for coverage to many people who have been locked out of the insurance market.

In California, home to 15 percent of the nation’s uninsured, officials took down the enrollment portion of the Covered California website for emergency upgrades. It was restored at mid-morning Wednesday, and 7,770 people had started applications by then, spokesman Roy Kennedy said.

California is one of a handful of mostly Democratic states that opted to set up their own exchanges rather than let the federal government do it for them. In the 36 states being operated by the federal Department of Health and Human Services, consumer patience was being tested.

Agency spokeswoman Joanne Peters said many Americans successfully enrolled on the first day, but she declined to put a number on it. She said the delays were due to “overwhelming interest” and high volume.

The delays come three months after the congressional Government Accountability Office said a smooth and timely rollout could not be guaranteed because the online system was not fully completed or tested.

The bumpy debut has the hallmarks of a technology project that may have rushed to meet the Oct. 1 deadline, said Bill Curtis, chief scientist at CAST, a software quality analysis firm, and director of the Consortium for IT Software Quality, which develops standards.

“It almost reminded me of going online and trying to buy Springsteen tickets,” said Sharon Schorr of suburban Cleveland, a self-employed accountant who finally gave up after eight hours of trying to use the exchange’s website.

With websites crashing, those who have been trained to explain the benefits under the federal law were trying to reach out to those who could be helped by the exchanges, handing out information at public transit hubs and holding town hall meetings in smaller communities.

Without online access, however, they could not actually guide people through the enrollment process.

“I’ve been unable to get in, and if I could have that would be great,” said Donene Feist, an outreach worker who also is executive director of Family Voices of North Dakota, a nonprofit advocacy group. “For those who got in, they said it was easy to follow.”

The Obama administration hopes to sign up 7 million people in the first year, and eventually cover at least half of the nearly 50 million uninsured Americans through government-subsidized plans and a Medicaid expansion.

Many states expect people to sign up closer to the Dec. 15 deadline to enroll for coverage starting Jan. 1. Customers have until the end of March to sign up to avoid tax penalties.


http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/03/insurance-manager-we-have-yet-to-have-someone-successfully-register-on-the-marketplace/ 




Then there's the very slim portion of America that Obamacare was carved out for to begin with...makes you really wonder when...yes when...they FINALLY admit this is a disaster.

They've had 3 full years to get this right.

Obamacare...say it with pride. It's his baby. It's his hallmark.
teedubbya
12 years ago
It is October 3. I was heavily involved in Part D. Hysterics are nothing new.
dstieger
12 years ago
noise......

I want transparency in consumer costs and ability to make cost comparisons between providers (care and insurers).

The rest is all noise.


I do not accept the assertion that controlling one (or more) variables is irrelavent because things will even out somewhere along the way. Those that benefit from the fact that the system is incomprehensible have absolute zero incentive in clarifying any of it. I am not thrilled about the government stepping in to fix things, but we are a long way from any sort of consumer advocacy force being able to handle it. I'm tired of being bent over by the health care and insurance industries. I guess I'm just rather used to taking it in the butt from the goverment.
teedubbya
12 years ago
I'm all for that too. And simplifying things.

I visited a few offices in St. Croix where they were sweeping the street and shoeing chickens away upon my arrival. Sounds weird but I appreciated the simplicity.
DrafterX
12 years ago
did you kill any chickens while you were there..?? 😕
teedubbya
12 years ago

did you kill any chickens while you were there..?? 😕

DrafterX wrote:



no but I choked one out multiple times
tailgater
12 years ago

Has anyone ever compared admin costs between the two?

teedubbya wrote:



The federal government has never improved efficiency by getting involved.

The fact that our current healthcare insurers are inefficient to begin with should only make you more afraid of the end result.

teedubbya
12 years ago

The federal government has never improved efficiency by getting involved.

The fact that our current healthcare insurers are inefficient to begin with should only make you more afraid of the end result.

tailgater wrote:



can't argue with that although the word never is intriguing.
DrafterX
12 years ago
sounds like we need an Obamacare czar or two... 😟
jpotts
12 years ago

I hate to admit it but other than subsidies we cant afford and forcing people to have it it's actually a good concept that the Media has bashed without ever really looking at how it works.

A - Your still dealing with private insurance companies

B Everybody qualifies

C There are plenty of alternatives if you are healthy

D it will actually make it easier for small businesses to offer insurance



The numbers are not bad espeially for people out of work and it's better than paying 1200 bucks a month to Cobra because if you let it go you are not healthy enough to get insurance,,

jackconrad wrote:




I'm confused here jack, you advocating for or against a national healthcare system. Because a "national" healthcare system means that those "private" insurance companies essentially become agents of the state. They are not private whatsoever.

As for everyone qualifying, that's true. However, everybody getting access to everything doesn't happen. Political connections become currency to getting good treatment.

And if stuff is national, there are zero alternatives.

And yes it'll make it easier for small business to offer insurance, because they don't have to offer it at all. What they DO have to offer is a crushing tax burden to fund a monolithic system that is inflexible, inefficient, and will eventually collapse under its own weight. Name for me five "national" programs that run more efficiently than their private enterprise counterparts.

You want to fix the system? Revert back to catastrophic care insurance, pay for doctor visits and tests out of pocket. You'll see that over the same amount of time, health care spending will either drop or remain constant for the same level of service, while nationalized healthcare runs amok. The large majority of providers will be forced to drop fees to attract patients, they will be able to cut back on staff and services that's required for insurance billing, and the market will provide specific services for billing and collection that are economical and competitively priced.

In the end, the bigger the pot of honey, the more flies it attracts. That is the way of the world.
Abrignac
12 years ago
^ The problem is that once a Fed bureaucracy is begun it never ends. This I here to stay.
Homebrew
12 years ago
Now Jpotts,
It really isn't national healthcare. The ACA forces people to buy insurance, from insurance companies, and regulates, and in some cases subsidizes those companies. That is nothing like nationalized healthcare. National healthcare, would be fully funded by the government, and would be paid for by taxpayers. As it is, the ACA still requires for profit insurance companies to work.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)🍺
kip5166@gmail.com
12 years ago
Yea, lets have the govt control our healthcare, look at some examples of their fine business model, like the USPS! Losing billions each year, and the worst customer service skills I have ever experienced, but those civil servants have a job for life.
Homebrew
12 years ago

Yea, lets have the govt control our healthcare, look at some examples of their fine business model, like the USPS! Losing billions each year, and the worst customer service skills I have ever experienced, but those civil servants have a job for life.

[email protected] wrote:


The government doesn't run healthcare. See my post just above.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)🍺
Kidmd
12 years ago
I get paid $28 per visit for Medicaid... And they want o cut that by 20-25%. In order to keep my doors open I would have to see 25% more patients ....and buy 25k worth of software to keep in compliance...
Yes it will be pay by performance...or lack thereof...the new
PAyments are gunna be made by how much money you SAVE the government/insurance company...in other words they will pay you for NOT doing tests , forcing people out of the hospital in less time (before thier well) giving less care, Not giving Chemo to the 70 year old man because technically he will only live another few years anyway, at least according to the tables, he is not a "good" investment of the money it will cost, thus DENIED treatment...yes it is happening , this is why a lot of my collegues are leaving medicine, retiring early, etc... We did not become docs to do medicine this way...
The bronze plans have a $5k to $6k deductible after paying monthly premiums( the premiums are what will be subsidized), thus $6 k out of poCket before your insurance kicks in, THEN it only pays 60% of the costs after the $6k out of pocket...this is chitty insurance, the silver deductible is not much better, higher monthly, and pays about 70-75% . The gold is even higher, with about the same deductible. And pays 90%...etc.....
To boot very few docs/hospitals are taking these insurances.
our local hospital has laid off almost 400 nurses and staff to be able to pay the obamacare costs, fewer nurses means poopy care..instead of 3-4 pts per nurse you will see 7-8 pts per nurse, this equates to bad care...This phenomenon is happening across the nation, just not being reported on...
I could go on and on just how bad this is going to be....
Sure ya get cheap insurance, but the old adage of you get what ya pay for is gonna be true.
Abrignac
12 years ago
ObamaCare's Broken Promises
January 31, 2013, 6:52 p.m. ET

Every one of the main claims made for the law is turning out to be false. .

By DANIEL P. KESSLERAs the federal government moves forward to implement President Obama's Affordable Care Act, the Department of Health and Human Services is slated to spend millions of dollars promoting the unpopular legislation. In the face of this publicity blitz, it is worth remembering that the law was originally sold largely on four grounds—all of which have become increasingly implausible.

• Lower health-care costs. One key talking point for ObamaCare was that it would reduce the cost of insurance, especially for non-group insurance. The president, citing the work of several health-policy experts, claimed that improved care coordination, investments in information technology, and more efficient marketing through exchanges would save the typical family $2,500 per year.

That was then. Now, even advocates for the law acknowledge that premiums are going up. In analyses conducted for the states of Wisconsin, Minnesota and Colorado, Jonathan Gruber of MIT forecasts that premiums in the non-group market will rise by 19% to 30% due to the law. Other estimates are even higher. The actuarial firm Milliman predicts that non-group premiums in Ohio will rise by 55%-85%. Maine, Oregon and Nevada have sponsored their own studies, all of which reach essentially the same conclusion.

Some champions of the law argue that this misses the point, because once the law's new subsidies are taken into account, the net price of insurance will be lower. This argument is misleading. It fails to consider that the money for the subsidies has to come from somewhere. Although debt-financed transfer payments may make insurance look cheaper, they do not change its true social cost.

• Smaller deficits. Increases in the estimated impact of the law on private insurance premiums, along with increases in the estimated cost of health care more generally, have led the Congressional Budget Office to increase its estimate of the budget cost of the law's coverage expansion. In 2010, CBO estimated the cost per year of expanding coverage at $154 billion; by 2012, the estimated cost grew to $186 billion. Yet CBO still scores the law as reducing the deficit.

How can this be? The positive budget score turns on the fact that the estimated revenues to pay for the law have risen along with its costs. The single largest source of these revenues? Money taken from Medicare in the form of lower Medicare payment rates, mostly in the law's out-years. Since the law's passage, however, Congress and the president have undone various scheduled Medicare cuts—including some prescribed by the law itself.

Put aside the absurdity that savings from Medicare—the country's largest unfunded liability—can be used to finance a new entitlement. The argument that health reform decreases the deficit is even worse. It depends on Congress and the president not only imposing Medicare cuts that they have proven unwilling to make but also imposing cuts that they have already specifically undone, most notably to Medicare Advantage, a program that helps millions of seniors pay for private health plans.

• Preservation of existing insurance. After the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of health reform in June 2012, President Obama said, "If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your insurance." This theme ran throughout the selling of ObamaCare: People who have insurance would not have their current arrangements disrupted.

This claim is obviously false. Indeed, disruption of people's existing insurance is one of the law's stated goals. On one hand, the law seeks to increase the generosity of policies that it deems too stingy, by limiting deductibles and mandating coverage that the secretary of Health and Human Services thinks is "essential," whether or not the policyholder can afford it. On the other hand, the law seeks to reduce the generosity of policies that it deems too extravagant, by imposing the "Cadillac tax" on costly insurance plans.

Employer-sponsored insurance has already begun to change. According to the annual Kaiser/HRET Employer Health Benefits Survey, the share of workers in high-deductible plans rose to 19% in 2012 from 13% in 2010.

That's just the intended consequences. One of the law's unintended consequences is that some employers will drop coverage in response to new regulations and the availability of subsidized insurance in the new exchanges. How many is anybody's guess. In 2010, CBO estimated that employer-sponsored coverage would decline by three million people in 2019; by 2012, CBO's estimate had doubled to six million.

• Increased productivity. In 2009, the president's Council of Economic Advisers concluded that health reform would reduce unemployment, raise labor supply, and improve the functioning of labor markets. According to its reasoning, expanding insurance coverage would reduce absenteeism, disability and mortality, thereby encouraging and enabling work.

This reasoning is flawed. The evidence that a broad coverage expansion would improve health is questionable. Some studies have shown that targeted coverage can improve the health of certain groups. But according to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation's Economic Research Initiative on the Uninsured, "evidence is lacking that health insurance improves the health of non-elderly adults." More recent work by Richard Kronick, a health-policy adviser to former President Bill Clinton, concludes "there is little evidence to suggest that extending insurance coverage to all adults would have a large effect on the number of deaths in the U.S."

The White House economic analysis also fails to consider the adverse consequences of income-based subsidies on incentives. The support provided by both the Medicaid expansion and the new exchanges phases out as a family's income rises. But, as I and others have pointed out in these pages, income phaseouts create work disincentives like taxes do, because they reduce the net rewards to work. Further, the law imposes taxes on employers who fail to provide sufficiently generous insurance, with exceptions for part-time workers and small firms. On net, it is hard to see how health reform will make labor markets function better.

Some believe that expanding insurance coverage is a moral imperative regardless of its cost. Most supporters of the law, however, use more nuanced arguments that depend on assumptions that are increasingly impossible to defend. If we are ever to have an honest debate about entitlement spending, we will need to distinguish these positions from one another—and see them for what they really are, rather than what we wish they would be.

Mr. Kessler is a professor of business and law at Stanford University and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323374504578217720567917856.html 
jackconrad
12 years ago
Many of your facts are wrong

Most people will still have their traditional insurace

this is only predicted to be about 10% of the overall market

This will be plus business for those who accept it

And Hospitals will now be paid for the present charity cases


BTW those deductibles do not work like you say they are actually out of pocket maximums and normal exams and prevenative medicine have no co pays. Not only that but cost sharing is based on your income.

I am sure that just just like with medicare there will be supplement plans available to fill unwanted gaps
Abrignac
12 years ago

I get paid $28 per visit for Medicaid... And they want o cut that by 20-25%. In order to keep my doors open I would have to see 25% more patients ....and buy 25k worth of software to keep in compliance...
Yes it will be pay by performance...or lack thereof...the new
PAyments are gunna be made by how much money you SAVE the government/insurance company...in other words they will pay you for NOT doing tests , forcing people out of the hospital in less time (before thier well) giving less care, Not giving Chemo to the 70 year old man because technically he will only live another few years anyway, at least according to the tables, he is not a "good" investment of the money it will cost, thus DENIED treatment...yes it is happening , this is why a lot of my collegues are leaving medicine, retiring early, etc... We did not become docs to do medicine this way...
The bronze plans have a $5k to $6k deductible after paying monthly premiums( the premiums are what will be subsidized), thus $6 k out of poCket before your insurance kicks in, THEN it only pays 60% of the costs after the $6k out of pocket...this is chitty insurance, the silver deductible is not much better, higher monthly, and pays about 70-75% . The gold is even higher, with about the same deductible. And pays 90%...etc.....
To boot very few docs/hospitals are taking these insurances.
our local hospital has laid off almost 400 nurses and staff to be able to pay the obamacare costs, fewer nurses means poopy care..instead of 3-4 pts per nurse you will see 7-8 pts per nurse, this equates to bad care...This phenomenon is happening across the nation, just not being reported on...
I could go on and on just how bad this is going to be....
Sure ya get cheap insurance, but the old adage of you get what ya pay for is gonna be true.

Kidmd wrote:




This is not the first time I have heard this. My child's pediatrician foresaw this a few years ago. He told me that he was considering retiring (he's about 50 now). He said that he was having to see more and more patients to make a decent living. Costs were going through the roof in terms of added staff to complete paperwork, file claims etc....
Abrignac
12 years ago
I don't know how "factual" this is, but considering the Kaiser Family Foundation is a sorta unofficial cheerleader for this here are some examples. The complete document can be found here:

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/8303.pdf 


A bronze plan with 20 percent coinsurance – a typical level under coverage today – and an out-of-pocket cost-sharing limit of $6,350 would have a single deductible of $4,375. Increasing the patient coinsurance level to 40 percent would lower the deductible by $900 to $3,475. Under both scenarios the deductibles are significant and would be considered catastrophic plans, particularly for people without significant personal savings. These plans would also meet the requirements for tax-preferred Health Savings Accounts.

The deductibles are more modest for silver plans with the same coinsurance and out-of-pocket limits. A silver plan with 20 percent coinsurance and an out-of-pocket cost-sharing limit of $6,350 would have a deductible of $2,050. Increasing the patient coinsurance level to 40 percent would lower the deductible to $650.

Seems REAL affordable to me.
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