Poll Question: Is Global Warming Real?
banderl
11 years ago
Another know it all nood.
victor809
11 years ago

Fiction. The notion that the church believed in a flat earth was made up on the late 19th century as anti-religious propaganda. Google up "myth of the flat earth" for more on that. Ironically, it's the people that consider themselves better informed that have fallen for the propaganda. Calling someone a flat-earther is a public declaration of your own ignorance, not theirs.

You're also very wrong on the the relationship between the Church and Copernicus.

eric.feldkamp wrote:



You're both horribly wrong.

First, Eric... Brewha wasn't talking "flat earth" he was talking heliocentric theory. You changed the argument on him and decided to call him ignorant after doing so.

Second, the church did in fact accept Copernicus' heliocentric theories at first. However, later they then chose to ban his doctrine... for about 200 years. For saying the earth revolves around the sun.
victor809
11 years ago

Some random Anti-AGW bullet points:

On the theme of flat earthers: The models used by "scientists" to test their "theories" and provide "predictions" about our future climate more closely resemble aquariums than an actual place. They are flat-earth models, making AGW an actual flat-earth theory.

Recent scientific discoveries have greatly downgraded the greenhouse effect of CO2. The AGW industry hasn't quite caught up to that yet.

During the Phenarozoic period, atmospheric CO2 concentrations have been as much as 10 times the current amount, well over the threshold for supposed runaway global warming, but the earth has experienced warming and cooling cycles that don't correlate at all to CO2.

The temperature range for earth over the last half a billion years has been roughly14C to 24C. During approximately 2/3 of those half billion years the earth has been close to that 24C upper limit. For the other 1/3 we've been close to the lower limit. The periods during which the earth experiences temperature in the intermediate range are typically very short, ~12000 years is the norm.

Our current interglacial period is about that long so we should expect either a rapid cooling (return to a few hundred thousand years of glaciation) or warming (many millions of years of tropical heat) sometime soon.

The entire industry bases their models on the data provided by a couple of very secretive groups. The actual raw data is not made available to the scientific community, rather the set released has been "corrected" prior to being employed in modelling.

Computer modelling and predictions aren't science. Actual science requires experimentation that is falsifiable, verifiable and repeatable. On many factors, what is often called AGW theory barely qualifies as conjecture, let alone as a hypothesis. Yet we are told to accept it as fact.

eric.feldkamp wrote:



I'm curious as to where you're getting your information on this. You're making a LOT of vague statements, which in and of themselves aren't bad, but not really verifiable or in any way meaningful.

Computer modeling and prediction is, in fact, part of science. If you have a system you cannot recreate experimentally, you model it and make predictions and then check to see how reality matches your predictions. To think this isn't actually science is questionable.

You say the "recent discoveries" have downgraded the effect of CO2. By how much? What studies?
Your statement that warming and cooling cycles don't correlate to CO2 is fine, if you cite it, or at least point us towards whatever you're using to pull your info.

Similarly, you seem to expect rapid cooling or rapid heating due to natural causes... what do you intend to do about this?
banderl
11 years ago
Way to welcome the nood, Victor.
MACS
11 years ago
Just because he has an opinion and expresses it doesn't make him a know it all nood.

Victor - We've had 3 ice ages, that we know of as scientific fact, right? What happened after each one? The planet got warm, the ice caps melted... this happened before we were even here.

To scientifically declare that man-made CO2 is the cause of global warming with, what, 150 years of documented weather data? (late 1800's I believe) is disingenuous, at best.

Is the globe warming? Undeniably... but I do not believe we are the problem. One big volcano eruption, and we're on a cooling trend (Discovery or Nat Geo had a show on what would happen if a super volcano popped its cork).

One well aimed solar flare, and we're fried.

We're at the mercy of nature.
banderl
11 years ago

Just because he has an opinion and expresses it doesn't make him a know it all nood.

MACS wrote:




Sure it does.
He's stating that his opinions are fact.
He's a nood.
Therefore, he's a know it all nood.
victor809
11 years ago

Just because he has an opinion and expresses it doesn't make him a know it all nood.

Victor - We've had 3 ice ages, that we know of as scientific fact, right? What happened after each one? The planet got warm, the ice caps melted... this happened before we were even here.

To scientifically declare that man-made CO2 is the cause of global warming with, what, 150 years of documented weather data? (late 1800's I believe) is disingenuous, at best.

Is the globe warming? Undeniably... but I do not believe we are the problem. One big volcano eruption, and we're on a cooling trend (Discovery or Nat Geo had a show on what would happen if a super volcano popped its cork).

One well aimed solar flare, and we're fried.

We're at the mercy of nature.

MACS wrote:



MACS, that's a simplistic look at the issue. You're looking at it as all or nothing. Perhaps it's both? Perhaps they are working at odds? Perhaps I don't particularly care, as all I want is for the planet to hold together another 40 years at most. But I do find the discussion interesting from a theoretical standpoint. And it simply isn't interesting if one decides that it doesn't matter at all because one big volcano and we'll cool... (unless you've got a good plan on how to cause a volcano. Perhaps you should talk to TCBY in that case, because he's all out of ideas of anything we could do to fix the climate if it gets naturally too warm....)

But, I do find eric's claim that we've downgraded the effect of CO2 on the climate interesting. He's basing his argument on a few points which sound good on the surface, but I'd like to dig into them a little.
victor809
11 years ago

Sure it does.
He's stating that his opinions are fact.
He's a nood.
Therefore, he's a know it all nood.

banderl wrote:



To be fair, I do that all the time. 🙂
banderl
11 years ago

To be fair, I do that all the time. :)

victor809 wrote:


True, but you're not a nood anymore.
MACS
11 years ago
Well... I guess I am kind of saying I don't think it matters what we do. The planet has warmed and cooled for billions of years. It did so before we were here.

Are we exacerbating the situation? I don't know for sure, but I'd guess we're not helping.

My issue is with the people who "cherry pick" the data, or worse manipulate it to say what they want it to say, in order to make legislation that may make a marginal difference for the planet as a whole, but devastates our free market economy.

F*** the damn caribou... I want cheap gas again.
banderl
11 years ago
That cheap gas thing is turning into a distant memory.
I remember paying $1.65.9 in Indiana in early spring. Those were the days.
victor809
11 years ago
I don't see how gas is really that expensive.
I mean... I spend about 200$/mo on gas. I look at it as a luxury expense. If gas were prohibitively expensive, I'd choose to live closer to work (99% of my driving is to and from work). Therefore, that money I spend per month on fuel is really just part of my decision not to live in the sprawling sh3thole of suburbia that is Hayward.... and $200/mo is not that much money. I spend more than that just to park the car. Hell, that's the price of date night.

I guess I just don't get it, but of all the issues plaguing modern life, fuel cost (unless you're a door to door salesman, or truck driver) seems like the most fixable of all problems.... We choose not to live near work.... so a large part of our fuel expense is actually a luxury, not a base necessity. So complaining of the price is like complaining about the cost of the 4$ latte we drink while we drive.
banderl
11 years ago
$200 a month?
I huff more than that.
victor809
11 years ago

$200 a month?
I huff more than that.

banderl wrote:



How far is your commute if you're spending more than that? I'm driving about 1.75hr per day just getting to and from work.... that's a pain in the azz commute in my mind.
HockeyDad
11 years ago

I'm curious as to where you're getting your information on this. You're making a LOT of vague statements, which in and of themselves aren't bad, but not really verifiable or in any way meaningful.

victor809 wrote:




Well all that is fine when the global warming crowd does it.
tonygraz
11 years ago

Well... I guess I am kind of saying I don't think it matters what we do. The planet has warmed and cooled for billions of years. It did so before we were here.

Are we exacerbating the situation? I don't know for sure, but I'd guess we're not helping.

My issue is with the people who "cherry pick" the data, or worse manipulate it to say what they want it to say, in order to make legislation that may make a marginal difference for the planet as a whole, but devastates our free market economy.

F*** the damn caribou... I want cheap gas again.

MACS wrote:




Looks like you have the "what will be, will be attitude" and a hope for cheap gas. ONly thing you might worry about in the warming stage is something like the great flood.
QMPASH
11 years ago

Looks like you have the "what will be, will be attitude" and a hope for cheap gas. ONly thing you might worry about in the warming stage is something like the great flood.

tonygraz wrote:



From the "master." Now you have seen the "final word" on this topic. Wait until tony discusses quantum physics. [sarcasm]
TMCTLT
11 years ago

Well all that is fine when the global warming crowd does it.

HockeyDad wrote:




=d> =d> =d>
tailgater
11 years ago
Vic, fuel prices impact the cost of EVERYTHING.
if it were only the daily commute We'd all own a prius.
DrafterX
11 years ago
no we wouldn't... 🤐
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