And here's a reasonable argument · Page 6

No, the establishment repubs have no cashews.

They see what happened to Gingrich and wet themselves, so Boehner and McConell go along and help Obama pass what he can because they are afraid the media will chastise them and say mean things about them if they stand up for what is right and explain why.

We need more conservatives in the Rep. leadership as the party needs to be taken back and steered back to the Constitution.

Washington Dems are off the reservation and don't even hide their socialism aims.

Edited by user 11 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#104

Lol

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#105

teddyballgame wrote:

I guess it's a 50’s thing that people are fearful of "socialism". When you think about it, not that people would, public roads, libraries, street lights are socialist. I guess that is why republicans love toll roads.

But I do think that the established republicans have cashews. If fact, they have all kinds of nuts.
Just sayin'

Covfireman
Aficionado

11 years ago

#106

Ok, so here is some food for thought:

Socialized health care is something to be vaunted?
It is horrible abroad. Everyone has health care..but it is sub standard health care.
You have to wait months and months sometimes years for procedures you could get in the U.S. very, very quickly.
Socialism has proved to be failures time and time again throughout world history, and we want to try it again.
Do you not see the problems in Europe? Do you not read the stories of people coming to America to get health care and flying back to their countries?

I'll wager you think everything he has done is great.
Whereas I will rail agains my party and their cruddy decisions, whether it be a President (read Bush Sr and Bush Jr ) or a member of congress.
And you still have yet to list me Obama's great achievements-
What are they? You say I won't acknowledge them.. I say there aren't any and you would probably refuse to acknowledge that this man has failed at anything.
Party first before country, right komrad?

He pits one group of people against another, constantly- Via Saul Alinsky
THAT is what I expect and always get from progressive big government liberals such as you- nothing of substance.

Here are some achievements:
Race relations are worse under his presidency.
more people on food stamps
more people on the dole
90 mil out of the work force
young unemployment at its highest levels since the 40s.
Iran is going to get Nukes
The IRS has been used to target individuals
Benghazi (where are those 8 hours missing from Benghazi, where he was notified and then went to sleep and then went to Vegas on a fundraiser?)
Violent criminals are being released early under his presidency while he calls for gun control against law abiding citizens.
Deportations at all time lows.
Executive orders circumventing the Constitution.

Where is your list of vaunted achievements?
Or perhaps I am just making up all these facts I have listed off the top of my head?

Man I am so racist!

teddyballgame wrote:

On the deportations Obama has actually deported more people than George W Bush . So that number is on the rise.

The criminals being released are for nonviolent drug offenses don't worry though we have the highest percentage of our population in prison.

On the young people unemployed you need to add in the ones that are underemployed also .

The rest you are pretty close on

Senator Warren is trying to fix wall street but that's a mess Bill Clinton caused with the repeal of Glass Stegal that caused the 2008 recession.

Covfireman
Aficionado

11 years ago

#107

Brewha wrote:

People hear the term socialism and associated it with communism . Public school, fire departments, police forces , public transportation, and water and sewer are more examples of socialism. I think we need more socialism in this country.

Feel the Bern! 2016

teddyballgame
Aficionado

11 years ago

#108

Like the unemployment #s, the deportation numbers are also fake. They now count people that are stopped at the border and turned back as deported, when that was never the case previously- so again, Obama plays with numbers and then goes to groups saying "We deport more people than did our predecessor" and then will turn around and tell hispanic groups that "We are not deporting massive amounts of people."

I agree with you on the underemployed number.. the real unemployment rate should be the the U6 rate which is something around 12-14%.

Call it Socialism, Communism, Marxism, whatever. Anyone or any party that is for a big centralized government represents a Statist mentality that infringes on liberty.

This is what flies in the face of the U.S.Constitution. The federal government was supposed to be innocuous, but it is now ubiquitous.

The hacks in Washington think they know better than the "average" citizen. These people won a popularity contest and now they know how to run banks, schools, car manufacturers, lightbulb factories, what ingredients we put in paint, and they all know how to control the climate?

They don't even know how and what goes into making a pencil.
The Statist does not like the Constitution because it restricts him and he can't push his agenda throughout without circumventing it.
But then the Statist doesn't care when their president rules like a king passing laws by fiat.

Just as Brewha stated, "It doesn't matter."

The Constitutional abuse doesn't matter, just that Obama enacts more big government programs, or enacts some "dreamer" law in an amnesty push or makes a treaty, but calls it an "agreement" so it is not treated as a treaty, or recognizes part of a law, but ignores the other parts.

So wise is the king, let us kiss his boots.

Bush started this with his illegal TARP executive order and Obama has taken the presidential abuse to new levels.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#109

Covfireman wrote:

Clinton had a role, but Reagan's economic recovery was the foundation.

Think about it. What industry or products were the growth factors? None, unless you count easing of credit and no risk for lenders (Silverado? Neil Bush? Keating 5?) Home appraisals up to 110% of value for 90% loans on refis!!! How could it fail? Everyone knows real estate ALWAYS goes up, right? (insert sarcasm thingy).

Clinton extended some of that, but there were many areas of traditional growth like housing/construction, high tech industry, etc. that were able to emerge during his terms.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#110

Covfireman wrote:

I have no candidate yet, a year to go and my vote is available to be purchased...but people will be surprised to hear Sanders is big-time into strong military growth.

When's the debate, tomorrow night?

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#111

Covfireman wrote:

I agree. It kills me to see the roads being privatized. And this country need more infrastructure.
But I always grin when I hear some one crying socialism - because they don't know what they are talking about.

teddyballgame
Aficionado

11 years ago

#112

why do we need more infrastructure? I thought Obama cured that!
Oh wait, you mean only 7% of the stimulus went to shovel ready programs and infrastructure and the rest went as sops to unions and to invest in GM and other stocks?

Everything the government touches, they screw up.
Public schools are just so great now, with the government taking over.( I find it especially precious that one of the first executive orders Obama signed was to cut off the school choice voucher system in D.C. that was HELPING BLACK UNDERPRIVILEGED MINORITIES as they begged him not to do it- Sop to the teachers' unions)
Obama wants to federalize police forces as they are the bad guys in his eyes and he continues to stoke those fires.
Public transportation? I hope I never have to take a public bus again. Amtrak losing money hand over fist.

Your examples of great socialism are not good ones and know that the private sector is always better at doing things than the government.

Military is about the only thing the government can do right, but even this, the current administration is trying to gut and destroy, just like they have done to the morale of the troops.

In short, Barry sucks as a president and statism in whatever form is a failed experiment.

Brewha, this Reagan quote suites you to a "T":

“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#113

teddyballgame wrote:

Honestly Teddy.....

We could talk about all those bridges, all over the country, that are dangeriously out of repair - but you just want to whine about our elected officials doing things you don't agree with or seem to understand.

Statism is just another fear word the conservative media uses - like socialism. This representative republic is an oligarch wrapped in a flag.

Ronald Reagan was a mouth peice. And his middle name was McDonald.
He:
Increased the debt while giving the wealthy a tax break
Was at the heart of the Iran/Contra scandal
Atacked working Americans and unions
Ignored AIDS
And embraced apartheid.

So he's your hero, not mine.....

But you will feel much better once Hillery takes office! 😁

Edited by user 10 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Covfireman
Aficionado

10 years ago

#114

Frankj1 I'll agree it started with Reagan easing credit but Glass Stegall was there to separate deposited banks from investment banks. Once it was repealed you saw banks start to push for even lower lending requirements. That in itself isn't all bad . The real problem started with the derivatives the banks ( who were now both the originator and purchasers ) started selling to each other created a ponzi scheme that had to fail. If the banks had been forced to remain separate it would have been impossible to raise the funding for it to grow as large. Glass Stegall also protected the little depositors from the speculative risks . That's why the bailout had to happen, without the two sides of banking being combined we could have let the investment banks fail without a total economic collapse. Glass Stegall was originally written in response to the great depression . It also affected insurance companies taking away a relatively safe investment (well underwritten mortgage portfolios ) and made them take on risky investments that forced the underwriting profit to go from an industry average of positive 5% to a negative 9%. That caused the insurance industry to no longer be able to write insurance expecting breaking even ( premiums -( losses +overhead )) creating upward pressure on all insurance premiums.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Covfireman
Aficionado

10 years ago

#115

Teddy the private sector can't support our infrastructure needs . Do you know why am track was formed ? The private sector wanted out of passenger service. Passenger service is still considered a vital national security need .

Public trasportatin is some of the only transportation the working poor have without it our large cities collapse . Look at the successful public transportation in cities like New York, Boston, San Francisco, and Atlanta . I'll leave out New Jersey the governor there is trying to kill it by delaying funding for much needed infrastructure but you know that he's one of your tea party hero's .

Public education needed help but common core ( George W Bush ) pushed it over the edge . If you want all private schools you create more separation of economic classes . I can only assume you're part of the 1 percent otherwise you wouldn't want to drive a stake into the heart of the middle class.

From your statement you agree that police forces are good . You also didn't address fire departments or water and sewer. So I'll stand by my examples of good socialism.

teddyballgame
Aficionado

10 years ago

#116

There is a role for government, but that role should be limited.

Also, Christy is NOT a tea party guy and I would not want him to be the nominee. I don't like him.

Tell me what is wrong with school choice? Go ahead, let the state and cities (not the fed) run their schools, but why not give those people in crappy school systems a chance to get out if their parents want and are willing to do what it takes?

Something wrong with competition when it comes to schools, or does that have to be a socialist system that you embrace? I never said all private schools, but I do embrace the voucher system and it has been a boon in Milwaukee and it was In D.C, before Obama did away with it. Public education, should be left up to the states and cities, where the more localized populous can better look toward what their school system needs.

Water pipes are bursting all over L.A. great sewer system.. but that is something the government can be involved in, but do you need them to tell you what lightbulb you are allowed to use?

teddyballgame
Aficionado

10 years ago

#117

To me it comes down to this.

Do you want liberty from a big centralized government, or do you want a government that wants to control and have power over the individual?

This country is a mear 239 yrs old from its Independence and only 228 yrs since the brilliant framers drafted the Constitution and then the Bill of Rights to limit the power of the federal government and to empower the individual.

This was the distinct break from all governments before it. Tyranny in its many forms.

So do we start adhering to the Constitution, or do we go backwards, reject the framers and give up our liberty and cling to "masterminds" in a centralized government that want to control us?

It has been going left for 100 years, time to steer the ship back towards the Constitution.

tonygraz
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#118

37 posts and all in the political forum sounds like the recipe of a troll. California right wingers are the worst wingnuts. Posters who join a forum only to post about politics are usually trouble. The last political forum I was in died a death because of a politics only poster. On another site, the only posting member I ever banned was a nasty california pub.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#119

tonygraz wrote:

TeddyBall is a noob. But to your point, he is well on his way to troll status. Not a good start....

Who knows, maybe he'll settle in.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#120

Covfireman wrote:

A lot of people don’t get the need for social services. They want a magical land where there is little or no government presents, but everything still works. We spend into our debt to police the rest of the world and wage wars – but it’s “big government” when they make you save energy or be less polluting.

I get that no one likes having the govmut tell you what you can and can’t do. But most all of the time it is for everyone’s good. Remember when they made you stop using leaded gasoline? Outrage!!! But do you know how poisonous it is to have lead pumped into the air?

Banning incandescent light bulbs for consumer use is a good thing.
Forcing clean energy is a good thing.
Fixing school lunches is a good thing – did you know they had catsup classified as a vegetable so they could feed the kids even more crap?

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