IL Primary Voter · Page 3 · CigarBid Forums

Free Fall
Auctions

Specials
Auctions

QuickBuy
Auctions

Newly Added
Auctions

Ending Soon
Auctions

Welcome Guest

Forum Terms & Conditions | My Topics

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#41

The whole condoning rape thing escapes me too.... maybe he is just saying it's easy for someone who doesn't practice your religion to say it says something it doesn't?

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#42

I would bet that everyone I ran into or talked to yesterday for the first time was under 100 IQ .

tonygraz wrote:

I would bet they could say the same.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#43

I'm proud to be in the majority, I think.

frankj1 wrote:

The majority of half?

Stop now while you're still a head.

bassman45
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#44

I would bet they could say the same.

tailgater wrote:

Lol!

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#45

TW, that was a good read and a well thought out piece.

I come from a fairly religious family, and I have heard similar sentiments over the years. I wasn't born with my beliefs, and wasn't raised to believe what I believe, ironically, it was my desire to learn more about religion after learning more about science that lead to it.

One thing I've learned about religions, is you kind of have to put your mind in a place to match the time they were written. So many passages are written so vaguely that they are open to vastly different interpretations.

On a side note...

About being wrong about the average IQ, I don't know what it is exactly, but I do know it's within 1 standard deviation of 100.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#46

condones rape?
there is rape in the Bible but i do not see where it is condoned

i think i know of the passage you are speaking but that doesnt seem to fit with the rest of scripture that never condones sex outside of marriage, even when dealing with captive women. if we take it within the context of the law it seems to make more sense.

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

gummy jones wrote:

Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Looks like if you see a virgin you like, just rape her, and she has to marry you....

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#47

bgz you seem to have an open mind and I respect that whether we agree or not.

Any religion you choose takes practice and time. Without those, it's hard to understand the religion. A superficial look may lead to more study and understanding, or could actually prove destructive and lead to wrong assumptions. I understand Christianity much better than any other religion because of practice and time among other things.

I'm trying to learn more about others not to convert, but to better understand who and what they are. I am amazed at the people that will not interact and learn more about other religions because theirs is right and to be exposed to other religions could result in catching the evil. If your faith is correct you (the royal you, none of this is directed at bgz) have nothing to fear from learning and exposure, in fact it should strengthen your faith. Beware of those that preach avoidance, it's a classic brain washing technique used by cults among others.

I certainly understand Christianity better than my Muslim friends do. I assume the opposite is true. If they believe it does not preach killing of infidels etc, I believe them, it's not a grand conspiracy. If they say mainstream Islam is not about hate and killing and a very small percent of freaks pervert it to say that I tend to believe them. I could be wrong in doing so, but would much rather live with the mentality of taking their word for it then calling them misinformed or lying about their own religion. It also seems to be more likely than not likely. Again, its an opinion and I could be wrong. If I am we are pretty much doomed anyway.

I do believe closing that gap is the key to peace, and it must start at the individual level then spread. It will not happen in my lifetime, for many generations, and perhaps never. But it's my hope and what I will teach my kids.

As an aside, I love studying the history of the religions as much or more than the specific teachings.... ie the actual life of Jesus, or Abraham and his sons and how their life led to different religions and/or sects etc.

One of the coolest things about the bible to me is how it maintains the old testament yet morphs into Jesus' teachings which at times admonish or contradict the old testament. Someone who doesn't understand this could take a passage out of the old testament out of context and misrepresent Christianity.

Meh now I'm ramblin

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#48

Brewha wrote:

Well... I mean, it's gonna cost you 50 silver and you're forced to be married to her.

So it isn't like you're getting away scott free.

gummy jones
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#49

Brewha wrote:

i am not sure that is condoning anything but rather a punishment for a real life scenario.

lets look at it in fullness and context, including some other passages: Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

in other words, if you have a relationship (consensual or non consensual) outside of marriage you are required to marry her (and in the case of rape never divorce her) unless her father objects. i can only assume many loving fathers objected in the rape case.

but we have to keep in mind that in ancient Jewish culture (as is still the case in much of the world), virginity was prized and it was very hard for a non virgin to find a husband (enter the dilemma of unwed Mary carrying baby Jesus). a woman who was raped would likely be regarded by many as unmarryable (i may have just made that word up). likewise, it would be very hard for a non married woman to support herself and survive.

rape is a sin/crime that strikes a particular chord with me (on the same level as those who harm children) and there is no case where it is justified so please do not interpret anything i say as my assertion that it isnt a big deal.

Edited by user 10 years ago | Reason: Not specified

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#50

i am not sure that is condoning anything but rather a punishment for a real life scenario.

lets look at it in fullness and context, including some other passages: Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

in other words, if you have a relationship (consensual or non consensual) outside of married you are required to marry her (and in the case of rape never divorce her) unless her father objects. i can only assume many loving fathers objected in the rape case.

but we have to keep in mind that in ancient Jewish culture (as is still the case in much of the world), virginity was prized and it was very hard for a non virgin to find a husband (enter the dilemma of unwed Mary carrying baby Jesus). a woman who was raped would likely be regarded by many as unmarryable (i may have just made that word up). likewise, it would be very hard for a non married woman to support herself and survive.

rape is a sin/crime that strikes a particular chord with me (on the same level as those who harm children) and there is no case where it is justified so please do not interpret anything i say as my assertion that it isnt a big deal.

gummy jones wrote:

Strangely, I think you're hurting the whole "rape is punished" argument.

The chapter brew quoted was in fact a punishment for a crime (50 silver and being forced to stay with her the rest of your life)... one would imply that is the punishment for raping a virgin .

But the chapter you quote from Exodus is a consensual "seduction" basically gives exactly the same punishment (give or take a few silver, as exodus isn't specific as to what the bride price is, or the bride price of virgins is... and then we have to convert that to silver... and time value of money... or something).

If the punishment for raping a virgin is the same as the punishment for consensual sex with a virgin, then is there really a punishment for rape in the bible?

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#51

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRwsOAScAHk

Here's the establishment GOP.

gummy jones
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#52

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRwsOAScAHk

Here's the establishment GOP.

ZRX1200 wrote:

yea i read that dudes comments the other day
another elitist deciding what is best for his subjects
he and hilary (amongst many others) deserve each other

luckily everyone eventually dies and tomorrow is another day

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#53

I do not like ANY of the establishment. I will vote for Trump because he is NOT part of the establishment. This is the best message I can send. If Trump is not nominated I will vote third party. I WILL NEVER vote for Cruz or Clinton.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#54

We got several topics in this thread (probably my bad)... but anyway, as a followup to the Islam portion of the conversation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fathima-imra-nazeer/isis-islam-quran-literalism_b_5737388.html

I found this opinion piece that sums up why many believe that Islam is dangerous.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#55

gummy jones wrote:

Christian or not, of course you don’t feel that rape is not a big deal.

Now I have been told by my local fundamentalist Christian that the New Covenant and New Testament basically supersede Deuteronomy. So this is maybe mute.

But the point is, that just because it is written, does not mean that all Christians take it as doctrine. And this is the case I am making for the Muslims.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

10 years ago

#56

Some people really believe their token vote actually selects primary winners and presidential winners. Our founding fathers were pretty smart to pull that one off.

moot not mute - signed MACS