Brewha
2 years ago

My 2 cents.

I’d consider anything that is a net positive on the environment as long as its cost of ownership is within reason.

Like MACS I don’t believe EV’s are ready for prime time simply because the infrastructure needed to support a switch from petro to electric isn’t in place nor is there any indication that it will be anytime soon. In fact, I think most automakers are beginning to rethink the long term viability of EV’s. That in of itself is probably delaying the massive infrastructure investments needed for long term EV viability.

Abrignac wrote:



I agree that if next Tuesday morning all of the cars in the 48 states were EV's it would not work for infrastructure reasons. But we are talking decades not days.

As to the future; let's go with hotly contested year of 2035, a bit less than 12 years, when some states might start mandates on car sales.

The average person owns a car about 8 years. My guess would be that by 2035 well less than half of the US cars are EVs. Sound fair? And then, even with universal mandates (that no one is proposing) the EV's population would only grow by about 12-13% per year. So maybe by 2045 we have like 80-90% EVs?

10-20 years is a long time in terms of infrastructure. In 1990 not even 1% of people had cell phones - and service sucked. By 2000 about 28%, and by 2010 over 80% - with decent service.

Infrastructure for home owners is already there and takes little to make work. Charging stations, well they sure built a lot of them in the last 5 years. Like 160,000. So it's kind of 1992 in cell phone terms.

Of course, Americans may never embrace EVs. And they don't even need a good reason. We tend to drive what we want and like, not what makes the most sense. Just look at all the BMW's on the road....




So the big question is how much people will like them, assuming they actually look at them. And right now - most don't wanna look.
Abrignac
2 years ago
We really do need a crickets emoji.
Brewha
2 years ago

We really do need a crickets emoji.

Abrignac wrote:



I accept your apology.

o:)
Brewha
2 years ago

It ALWAYS was. Those that chose not to see it leaped headfirst.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/biden-could-delay-ev-switch-as-auto-industry-pressure-mounts/ar-BB1iwcDW?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=ff1bdd1e89524431fb82e7fd849cde71&ei=11 

With auto manufacturers pleading with the current administration to end their insanity those that leapt are faced with the uncertainity of higher associated costs to maintain their glorified street legal golf cart.

This is ending much much faster than I could've predicted. I did call it by saying the free market should decide the viability of it versus the government meddling and giveaways to entice the weak minded.

PS: Remember we bailed out the US manufacturers. Wanna do it again? Ford is down 6 billion, 1.8 billion for GM. Not exactly winning the hearts and minds when you're closing factories.

DrMaddVibe wrote:




Oh, and when the Chinese kick our azzes in the car market we'll but bailing them out again.

Or is your crystal ball myopic?
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

Oh, and when the Chinese kick our azzes in the car market we'll but bailing them out again.

Or is your crystal ball myopic?

Brewha wrote:




Stop supporting the CCP. The literally own the majority of most of the mineral right globally. They got them through slick Silk Road initiatives from nations that couldn't payback their loans. The CCP isn't some benevolent organization.


Brewha
2 years ago

Stop supporting the CCP. The literally own the majority of most of the mineral right globally. They got them through slick Silk Road initiatives from nations that couldn't payback their loans. The CCP isn't some benevolent organization.


DrMaddVibe wrote:



I am warning that they are getting ahead of us, not supporting them.

But you would have us do nothing while they capitalize on the EV market.
HockeyDad
2 years ago

I am warning that they are getting ahead of us, not supporting them.

But you would have us do nothing while they capitalize on the EV market.

Brewha wrote:



Make EVs illegal.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

Make EVs illegal.

HockeyDad wrote:




Then he'd have to make himself fart to hear the noises.
Brewha
2 years ago

Make EVs illegal.

HockeyDad wrote:


And put all those kids mining lithium out of work?
Brewha
2 years ago

Then he'd have to make himself fart to hear the noises.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


That's no hill for a climber...
Brewha
2 years ago



Hydrogen would require less effort to get to where gas is... if they put the money into it.

MACS wrote:



And I believe that in time that infrastructure could be built.

But the reason they don't sell the Toyota Mirai outside of Southern California is because of the H2 availability.

That's presuresed, -423 degrees F, liquid Hydrogen. Also not a Walmart item.
HockeyDad
2 years ago

And put all those kids mining lithium out of work?

Brewha wrote:



They should learn to code.
Abrignac
2 years ago
Biden Administration Is Said to Slow Early Stage of Shift to Electric Cars

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/climate/biden-epa-auto-emissions.html 

As I’ve said before they’re: “Not ready for PRIME TIME.”
Brewha
2 years ago
Your link is behind a pay wall. Also not ready for prime time?

In fairness perhaps your deeper point is that Americans are not ready for prime time….
MACS
2 years ago
Brew...

You've said yourself the infrastructure is not there. I've explained to you how most families in the US either can't afford electric, or it's not right for them.

You have your blinders on, pal. You're like a draft horse pulling a cart. Oblivious to anything but your task of pulling that cart.

Nobody else wants to pull that cart, buddy. You keep pulling, but please... for the love of all that is Holy and Good... take the fkn blinders off.
Abrignac
2 years ago

Your link is behind a pay wall. Also not ready for prime time?

In fairness perhaps your deeper point is that Americans are not ready for prime time….

Brewha wrote:




Scott if and when you ever add something germane to any discussions I’ll be be happy to join you. Until then I’ll treat you like the troll you’ve become and ignore you.

=;
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

They should learn to code.

HockeyDad wrote:




dammit
Brewha
2 years ago

Scott if and when you ever add something germane to any discussions I’ll be be happy to join you. Until then I’ll treat you like the troll you’ve become and ignore you.

=;

Abrignac wrote:




So, i'm not sure you're using that word properly - not that it matters.

Happy trails Anthony.

May the wind at your back be your own.
Brewha
2 years ago

Brew...

You've said yourself the infrastructure is not there. I've explained to you how most families in the US either can't afford electric, or it's not right for them.

You have your blinders on, pal. You're like a draft horse pulling a cart. Oblivious to anything but your task of pulling that cart.

Nobody else wants to pull that cart, buddy. You keep pulling, but please... for the love of all that is Holy and Good... take the fkn blinders off.

MACS wrote:



Macs, please consider that I am talking about the coming decades. And the cars that would need the infrastructure don't exist yet. And yes, there are pockets like Chicago where people who can't charge at home has issues getting filled up.

It is true that may cannot afford a new car - the average price of which is about $48,000 (so say the intranets). A cheap Tesla starts at $39,000 - still out of reach for many - to your point. There is of course a growing body of used EVs - not that I think people should be compelled to buy one.




To be clear - I don't have a dog in this fight. I like my car and am happy to tell people about the tech. But I am not for anyone being forced to buy one. Really. Honest injun.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago
What's 466 BILLION amongst the CBO and the current administration???

"The Shocking Truth About Biden’s Proposed Energy Fuel Standards

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA did an impact assessment of 4 fuel standard proposals and compared them to the cost of doing nothing. Guess what.

Following roughly 150 pages of fearmongering discussion of things like gasoline spills, 27 references to cancer, and the hypothetical benefits of proposed actions, we arrive at this amusing table.

Doing Nothing vs Four Alternatives Year 2035

Here is the NHTSA’s bottom line: “Net benefits for passenger cars remain negative across alternatives” vs doing nothing at all.

Costs are always much greater than expected, and in this case we are already starting from a negative benefit.

And so, here we are.

The Inflation Reduction Act that Biden told us would pay for itself, not only delivers negative benefits “across all time frames” in reducing emissions, it is now expected to cost $466 Billion more over 10 years."


https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/cbo-revised-cost-bidens-energy-policies-466-billion 



Pull the plug on this insanity now. The planet will thank us for it.
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