Hold that thought. Unlike when I had to dumb down the reasoning why it was unwise for a police officer shoot to kill verses shot to wound this will take a bit more time.

As far as a discussion without name calling, for every thread you cite where you were nothing but civil I can cite at least a dozen where you made backhanded comments directed at those with a different opinion than your own.

Abrignac wrote:

You're just being petulant because of all the arguments that you have lost.

And you know the Chinese are gaining a real advantage in the auto market - but you're just going to wish it away.

Brewha wrote:

Meanwhile;
America considers whether or not to give the future automobile market to the Chinese.

Chinese car maker BYD introduces a $12,000 car - and it is nicer and scarier than you think.
https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-cae20c92432b74e95c234d93ec1df400 

US government moves to keep the new high tech out with tariffs - a stop gap move:
https://apnews.com/article/biden-china-tariffs-electric-vehicles-evs-solar-2024ba735c47e04a50898a88425c5e2c 

Once in production EVs should be far cheaper than ICE cars. But companies like Ford show us how legacy companies don't know how and are locked into doing it the old way, with the old vendors and the old tech. So they lose money.

BYD is subsidised by the Chinese government - which is wise. But Americans would cry a river about us doing that.

American's strategy is to hope the new tech just goes away. And push the idea that it is not real, doesn't work and is "bad".
"You know that them EV's kill Bald Eagles - right?"

But, the world will be getting cars that cost half as much to buy, own and operate. And Americans will deny it until their only move left is to call for a war on China.

"America - F*ck Yeah!"

Brewha wrote:

What does that make someone that willingly gives over money to the Communist Chinese Party? Almost all of the minerals that are in your EV are sourced from them. Their "cars" are really miniature spy balloons tracking where it's been, where its going with cameras in almost every angle, microphones to listen in and GPS systems to store and upload from. You don't have a problem with that. No, you cheer it on and bad mouth the nation you live in.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

You are openly extolling this nation's demise at the expense of your level of trendiness. Get over yourself. You've been shown the error of your purchase at ever opportunity. You got played. Your car is worth less than what you paid for it and is depreciating faster than your IQ and you don't even OWN IT! You got all giddy and had to tell everyone here you have an app for your car so it makes fart noises. Act like a man instead of some washed out Kardashisan ****.

The ONLY person that's lost every argument on this thread is YOU! You've been dead wrong on everything. EVERYTHING.

Taking sides with China? That's a new kind of low for even you. Gonna crack some Uyghur jokes now? Seriously the slave labor the CCP employs to maintain relevance is staggering...but hey, we gave them "Favored Nation" status. Gotta expect it, but not with a vehicle that is unsustainable without government gimmickry. After all there will forever be a sect of Americans that will cling to their love of cars for the freedom of that experience. Not you. You want to rush headfirst into debt with a not ready for primetime vehicle that is really just a fad like a pet rock. So while you're rushing in the CCP and holding the door open for more of their shenanigans, I will be calling you a fool for doing that.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

We are not in an automobile race with China.

HockeyDad wrote:

Well...At least you're not paranoid.... 😟




Not taking sides with China. Just pointing out how Americans such as yourself are are giving them a leg up - by your complacency, by your nay saying, and by your full on denial. You sir, are the best friend the chinese have in the auto race.

Hold you breath and cross your eyes - but they won't go away.




btw - nice rant - you still love the farting car don't you?
Yeah, we all do...

Brewha wrote:

Paranoid? Hardly. Informed? **** yeah. You? Unless its on the side of a Starbucks cup...you don’t know **** about ****...and display that DAILY!

Um...once again I have to talk down to you because you can't fathom that there isn't an 8 ft bed with a gooseneck hitch that can tow my 30' 3horse slant with living quarters trailer. I don't run out like you to the mall, the nail salon or out with the girls. China doesn't even have one! I would never support them like you. I'm a bit more American and an see how losers like you want people sleeping on sidewalks, can't speak the language and committing crimes because you dont pay enough in taxes and want to spend your grandchildren into oblivion.

The fart car is for ADHD spasmatic morons with rapid cycling bouts of lucidity.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

Sorry Doc - I did not know you lived in a horse trailer. My bad.
I hope you are at least down my the river....

Brewha wrote:

You're just being petulant because of all the arguments that you have lost.

And you know the Chinese are gaining a real advantage in the auto market - but you're just going to wish it away.

Brewha wrote:

Oh and backhanded comments that disparage people who have a different opinion is as bad or not worse than name calling.

Abrignac wrote:

I disagree. So called backhanded comments have an elements of humor and skill. Quality banter and repartee are entertaining - while also making a counterpoint.

How would you feel if I responded to your vaunted LEO insights with the summary statement "double dumbass on you"?
It would not have honored your contribution, now would it?

Brewha wrote:

I would like to see a report on the durability of the vehicles. From the little bit I can find they are described as pretty junk. I would assume major worldwide manufacters do not want their name to be thought of with junk. Is there opportunity there in the cheap market, sure there is. Do you want to be in the cheap market is another question entirely. How did Yugos do in our market? If I remember correctly they bombed and also did not meet our saftey standards.

It would be interesting to know their tolerance on parts + or -. Also a report on saftey over the last 5 years would be good to have. Do they even meet our standards? What is the expected life span in miles? Are the made of substandard materials? What would parts availability be? Perhaps biggest of all what is the quality of the electrical motors?

Speyside2 wrote:

May 14 (Reuters) - Tesla (TSLA.O), has been sued by an environmental nonprofit that accused Elon Musk's electric car company of violating the federal Clean Air Act hundreds of times by letting its Fremont, California, plant emit harmful pollutants.

In a complaint filed on Monday, the Environmental Democracy Project said Tesla has since January 2021 exposed nearby residents and workers to excessive nitrogen oxides, arsenic, cadmium and other harmful chemicals, mainly through its paint shop operations.

The nonprofit wants an injunction to halt excess pollution, plus civil fines of up to $121,275 per day per violation of the Clean Air Act.

Tesla did not immediately respond on Tuesday to requests for comment.

The lawsuit filed federal court in San Francisco adds to pressure on Tesla to improve air quality surrounding the Fremont plant, its main U.S. factory.

On May 2, the Bay Area Air Quality Management District said it wanted an independent hearing board to order Tesla to reduce harmful emissions from its paint shop operations.

HockeyDad wrote:

You know the enginering, I do not. I think you answered my questions. A lot of people will buy a minimalist design to recieve the savings. There are also a lot of people who could care less if they have power windows and such. It is simply transportation from A to B.

Speyside2 wrote:

fwiw:

https://www.osv.ltd.uk/byd-reliability-how-reliable-are-byd-cars/

"As a relatively new brand, BYD does not have the years of reliability data behind it compared to legacy companies. However, initial quality and dependability studies indicate BYD is on par or outpaces several major manufacturers.

In a 2022 J.D. Power survey, BYD topped brands like BMW, Tesla, and Volkswagen in dependability. Reviews praise BYD’s smooth driving dynamics and long battery range.

Interior fit/finish has garnered criticism along with some build quality concerns. But overall, BYD scores well for a newcomer."


I would tell you that while you do tend to get what you pay for, Paying more is not guarantee of quality or reliability (just ask a former BMW owner).

But - EVs are fundamentally cheaper to make - once in production. Add to that the new revolutionary techs like Gigacasting. Add to that the push for simplicity of design. Legacy won't be able to compete long term.

Look inside a Model 3 or Y. Many are impressed with the "futuristic minimalism". But the eye of engineer see ruthless cost cutting by simplification. Yet it all works - better than most - even without sneezing knobs and switches everywhere.

Do not make the mistake of underestimating the Chinese.

Brewha wrote:

This is tempest in a teacup. It is stooopit. The violations of the CLA are paltry when compared to the pollution generated from the mineral extraction necessary to get these vehicles to market. And air pollution…the number one emitter is concrete. Yup. And what will they need to get the infrastructure compatible with vastly increased EV ownership and operation? Concrete. Lots and lots of it too.

jeebling wrote: