My beliefs are between me and my God....whoever He may be.

I just try to do what He tells me to do....even though I know I'm a failure at it, and always will be. Aren't we all?

I can respect your decision, but I guess I'm trying to get a handle on where you are coming from. Ones spiritual/religious beliefs can help build understanding between people.

Surprised. That's all.

You do crack me up, sometimes!

I agree with you, but would like to see a different approach.

You seem to be saying that since the Pledge is no longer accurate, it's inapplicable and should be removed.

Well, I feel just the opposite. I think, that instead of robotically reciting it, it should be learned. The meaning and importance should be delved into.

Much like a class that does poorly on a math test, they don't give up on math. They study harder.

How can children embody the spirit of the Pledge of Allegience if they don't know what it means?

That should be the last line.

If we teach our kids to KNOW the meaning of the pledge and to strive to help in it's meaning, then we'll turn them into a bunch of free-thinking liberals just like the forefathers were. Then what would we do when our government says it wants to lie to us, and they say...."hey wait a minute there fella!"

BTW have any of you So Cal guys been back to that little mens clothing/cigar shop in Tustin to Herf lately. Have they even had any other events there? That was a really nice little shop to hold a Herf in. Of course winning the box of Bucaneros didn't hurt my perspective any either...LOL

Later,JJ

Once again, you call the founding father's "Liberals", which by today's standards, they were not. They were progressives, and perhaps liberals of their time. A conservative of the 18th century would have been in favor of monarchic rule, so conservatives, they were not. They never conceived of government regulating every aspect of our lives, nor did they conceive of government as a slavemaster. Today, people with socialistic tendencies, such as yourself, chose to believe that the government should provide for every conceivable human need. That encourages the downtrodden to remain, just that. Rugged individualism was the thing that the founders believed in! People are too ready to blame the goverment for their misfortunes, and this may be true, but only because we have given them so much power over our individual lives. Remeber the words of John F. Kennedy, who said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

Greg

"You seem to be saying that since the Pledge is no longer accurate, it's inapplicable and should be removed."

Though I do believe that the pledge is inaccurate, I have re-read my post, and can not see anywhere that I have advocated it's removal. I just said it is not truthful in todays "Me atmosphere." Unless people start thinking of themselves in the terms, "What can I do for my country" Before what will help me the most, our the people in this country will never uphold the ideals, and values, of the pledge.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

Let's change that by strengthening the Pledge, not diminishing it.

I agree that America is not perfect,but it is our duty as Americans to make it better!

How true! Why change the Pledge at all, Just change ourselves so as to give the true meaning of the Pledge

what it was intended to be.

I also agree that the majority should rule! there is to much BS. out there with minority groups trying to change our way of life(**Quote from movie The Ten Commandments**

. **Let it be said! let it be written**

clintock