When I'm at a funeral or wedding or whatever and there is a group prayer, I simply look downward and think about various things in my life, etc...I don't close my eyes because I'm not ashamed for whom I ma or what I believe (or don't believe) in

Hog,

The question still stands, which is,

Should the prayer in schools ban be rescinded, (not likely), would it be open to children of all faiths?

Spiny, there are many States who have recended it already.. I am not sure as to what the statues to it pertains per State...but because it is allowed does not mean that children of other faith's have to pertisipate (sp) in it... but just because 1 would be offended it should be removed from all??? come on this does take things Out of the Envelope...

it is just like your Cigar smoking.. it Offends some people... So you have to smoke outside... a few of the Brothers here can attest to this... we were smoking Cigars in a Bar here in SPI just before the LOLH 1 a few years back... everybody was sharing cigars smoking BS'ing with waiteress and bar keep... they even gave out Cigars to others in the place... pretty soon we were all asked to leave because the Smoke was Offending some others... thats totally Wrong.... if a person goes into a bar there's going to be smoke.. Knowingly...and pryor to all this it was ok with the Establishment... the Prayer in School is simular to this same incident...it was already established as a guideline for many generations here in America...but because of so many other differnt Ethnic Groups it is Obolished to appease them... America was based on Religion... and it just keeps being eroded away... just like our Rights...

As Lincoln Said

"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger?

By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure on earth . . . could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trail of a thousand years . . . . If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

-Abraham Lincoln, 1838

Hog

usahog

"America was based on Religion."

where in the world did you ever get that idea. america was "based" on not paying taxes to england, but rather keeping the money here for the use of the "people" here. "remember no taxation without representation"

at that time of course the definition of "people" was white, male, land owners, and protestant. almost like it is now.

the religion issue was raised because the "people" did not want to have their religion decided by the state, ie, church of england.

the founding fathers never dreamed there would be catholics, jews, muslims, buddhaists (is that a word?), and all sorts of what to them would have been heretics.

don't get the idea, that the founding fathers had any grand ideas of what "democracy" would be about. they formed a republic "A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them."

those entitled to vote were the "people" (see above definition.) they were organizing to save their personal asses.

usahog

"America was based on Religion."

where in the world did you ever get that idea. america was "based" on not paying taxes to england, but rather keeping the money here for the use of the "people" here. "remember no taxation without representation"

at that time of course the definition of "people" was white, male, land owners, and protestant. almost like it is now.

the religion issue was raised because the "people" did not want to have their religion decided by the state, ie, church of england.

the founding fathers never dreamed there would be catholics, jews, muslims, buddhaists (is that a word?), and all sorts of what to them would have be heretics. they burned "witches" alive in the name of religious freedom for them selves.

i'm glad they got together or i would speak with an english accent and would not be able to understand myself. (when i watch a movie with those dumb ass cockney accents, i turn on the captions so i'll understand what they are talking about.

i used to like the idea that the government stayed out of my life except for providing services i pay for. i didn't want the government to use any of my money to go to vietnam and i don't want the government to use any of my money to go to vietnam 2.

don't get the idea, that the founding fathers had any grand ideas of what "democracy" would be about. they formed a republic "A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them."

those entitled to vote were the "people" (see above definition.) they were organizing to save their personal asses.

usaHog,

Actually what was passed was "a monent of silence" in Oklahoma and Ohio. All other legislation for prayer in schools failed. Some states authorized publicly posting phrases like "In God we trust" and "God bless America" in government buildings. Those are Georgia, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, and Virginia.

Having a moment of silence would require the child to participate by being silent and still weather they were activly praying or not. I do a lot of volunteer work with kids at my daughters school. (about 150 hours a year) and I can assure you that children that age are easily influanced by their teachers and their peers. There is much truth in the quote that Rick had posted earlier, "Give me your children until they are 6, and i will own them for life." This is precisly why I and many others are opposed to prayer in schools.

On the analogy with cigar smoking in restaurants. We all have a choice to enter or not that establishment. Children have no choice on wether or not to attend school. It's required by law.

Back to the poem. I can only assume that the type of prayer in school that the author is interested in is "Judeo Christian" prayer as he/she mentions the bible, the ten commandment and Jesus. Where does this leave the other 24% of the population who are not christian. So let's say that all can pray in their own fashion. Well not all religon's pray as the christians do. The Buddhist child would be burning incense and chanting his mantra while the muslim child would be on the floor praying to mecca. That's just two examples. Imagine the chaos in a room full of 3rd graders.

I am not against the pledge of alligence but I can certainly see where others would be. The Jahova's witnesses I believe see it as a form of idolitry. Call them what you want but they are devout in their beliefs.

When I was a kid, I would meet at a friends house down the street and we would walk to school together. Just before his family split up to go to their jobs or schools, they would kneel in a circle on the living room floor, hold hands and pray. I participated because it would have been extremly uncomfortable not to. This isn't something my parents would do or would even have approved of had they known.

I think families should pray together. In their churches and in their homes but lets let the schools do what they were set up to do and that is educate our kids to think for themselves, be tolerant of others, and become better citizens. Lord knows we could use more of that.

-Spiny

"Pledge of allegence"

To what?

To the Flag, which represents this Country.

Offended? Tough.

A public school in America should be able to Pledge to America.

Prayer is another issue, and obviously a moment of silence is the best discretion.