gideon
  • gideon
  • Connoisseur Topic Starter
23 years ago
egruff - i appreciate the insight and that web site converter is a great tool. thanks for posting it.

Alas, I will try to monitor my sticks over the next few weeks, see how the feel and smoke, and find the right RH to store 'em.

Take care.
RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
if you guys would be cheap crap,like bad frogs, you could keep them in your oven or on yout roof and the humidity and temp wouldn't hurt them.

if you chose to smoke decent cigars, i offer this cut and paste for what it is worth:

5.0 Humidification

Why create a humid environment with a constant relative humidity of 70%?
Cigars are naturally hydroscopic products. In common with many organic substances, they dry out in the absence of humidity in the air, or absorb moisture from the ambient air. They establish an equilibrium with the atmospheric humidity which surrounds them.

At 68% a cigar will slowly dry out and loose essential oils. At 74% and higher, organic molecules will break down out-of-order, producing unwanted tastes. More importantly, at 80% or higher, you're leaving your stogies wide open to grow mold. Neither cigars or humidors are a particularly sterile environment. Note that these are relative humidities - cigars should be stored at 70 - 73% RH regargless of temperature.

5.0a The "Variable Humidity Myth...

Many self-proclaimed "authorities" have been making a serious mistake of confusing moisture content with relative humidity lately. At least one well-known Cigar distributor has added strength to this legend by distributing a table recommendinging different relative humidities at different temperatures. Don't fall for this "urban legend"! Cigars should be kept at 70% RH REGARDLESS of temperature or you WILL ruin them...

The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity which just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Since that pliability is based on the interaction of the cellular membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important. This isn't chemistry, it's mechanics - on a cellular level. Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature. At 70% relative humidity (a measure which by definition is independent of temperature) cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. at 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. at 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Does it make any sense to a rational person to keep their cigars at close to 100% humidity at 60 degrees? Anyone living in cold climates can attest to the fact that at 60 deg, their cigars are perfect at 70%, and (as they would at any temperature) their cigars are prone to mold and swelling at humidities above 80%. Those living in the tropics will tell you the same thing - their cigars MUST be kept at 70% humidity at storage temperatures of 80 degrees. According to "the table", those cigars should be at 50% humidity? I'll tell you what... If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack - I couldn't even imagine how badly dried out they'd be at 50%!

Try it yourself. The "logic" of varying RH with temp falls apart in the real world. Moisture content is NOT why we keep cigars at 70% humidity...

Here's a more scientific explanation debunking the myth of varying humidity from David E. Patton, Ph.D. at the Department of Physiology, UCLA School of Medicine...

"There has been extensive discussion on A.S.C. concerning the effects of temperature on humidity and its application to proper cigar storage. Much of the confusion concerning these concepts comes from not understanding what is happening at the molecular level. My goal is to explain some of the relevant concepts and then to put the concepts together in such a way as to give an intuitive understanding of how they relate to cigar storage.
Cigars are made from tobacco leaves. Tobacco leaves (like most plant material) consist primarily of carbohydrates and proteins. Protein and carbohydrate molecules contain many binding sites for water molecules. A certain proportion of the water binding sites need to be occupied by water molecules in order for the tobacco leaves to be adequately pliable, to burn properly and to age properly. So when we think about humidity as it relates to cigar storage, the most relavent factor to consider is: are the correct proportion of water binding sites occupied? Water molecules bind to other molecules via hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals interactions also participate. This applies to water bound to protein and carbohydrate molecules (e.g. tobacco leaves) or to other water molecules (e.g. liquid water). For the purposes of this discussion, water bound to tobacco leaves will be treated like liquid water.

Temperature is the main factor determining whether a water molecule will be more likely to be in either the gas or liquid (or bound) phases. This is because at higher temperatures, water molecules (like any other molecule) will have more kinetic energy. The more kinetic energy a molecule has, the higher its probability of being in the gas phase. This is because it will have sufficient kinetic energy to break out of the hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals interactions that would otherwise keep it bound. At lower temperatures molecules have less kinetic energy so when they collide with a carbohydrate molecule, for example, its kinetic energy is insuficient to break away from it. The important point here is that at higher temperatures, a water molecule is more likely to be in the gas phase and less likely to be bound. At lower temperatures a water molecule is more likely to be bound and less likely to be in the gas phase.

Another point that needs to be explained here is the concept of relative humidity. Simply stated, relative humidity is the ratio of the concentration of water in the gas phase divided by the maximal concentration of water the air can hold (the saturating concentration) at a given temperature. Air holds more water at higher temperatures. Therefore, if you hold the relative humidity constant and increase the temperature, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase will increase. If you think about this superficially you may think that because the concentration of water molecules increases in the gas phase as you increase the temperature (holding relative humidity constant)that your cigars will become over-humidified. This is WRONG. Remember, as you increase the temperature, the water molecules are less likely to be bound to the tobacco and more likely to be in the gas phase. Thus, to keep the same proportion of water binding sites in the tobacco occupied by water molecules, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase must be increased when temperature is increased."

Again, cigars should be stored at 70 - 73% relative humidity, regardless of temperature. Period.


efm
  • efm
  • Connoisseur
23 years ago
Thanks Rick, that's what works--watch the RH not the temp. The last sentence of your quote is confusing to me. Seems to suggest the opposite. But all this science gives me a headache.
gideon
  • gideon
  • Connoisseur Topic Starter
23 years ago
Thanks rick - helpful post.
egruff
23 years ago
Actually, some of what Rick posted is somewhat contradictory. If you store your cigars at 60ºF/70% RH and then take them out of the humidor into a room that is 70ºF/70%RH, they will have considerably less moisture than if they had been stored in the room. If the water molecules are needed to bind to key cellular components in the cigar for optimal aging and smoking, then there aren't enough of them from the 60/70 humidor. If the room you brought them into was 80/70, then the cigars would immediately start taking up moisture and likely swell over time. Again, the cigar has a fixed amount of moisture.

Rick - one thing regarding RH. It's actually the vapor pressure of the moisture in the AIR relative to the maxiumum it can hold. Thus, RH can be misleading when applied to a cigar as there are other processes going on (as your post correctly pointed out).

So, now that this post has become hopelessly complex, I have a suggestion. If your cigars seem too dry, add moisture to your humidor. Conversely, if they seem too wet, take some out. There!
turnberry
23 years ago
Rick offers some good information. It does seem to make sense to maintain 70-73% RH for long term cigar storage. But if you do that I think you would benefit from putting them in a "drybox" for a day or so before smoking them so they can dry down a bit and open up. SteveS is right on about that benefiting the draw characteristics. My personal drybox is nothing more than a fairly attractive empty Astral box with pretty thick cedar construction.
23 years ago
We have a winner! Good one Turn. Excellent recommendation and that's what I try to do, unless the wet box has something just too tempting :o)
rayder1
23 years ago
I keep my car 'gars in an Otter Box on the back seat. Sometimes it gets up to 100 something degrees and sometimes 40 something. I've never had a bad smoke.

Maybe my palate isn't as delicate as others, but a couple of those cigars stayed in the box for 2 weeks while I rotated others in and out as I smoked them. I keep a variety of short smokes, long smokes and gift smokes in the box.

In the summer, I probably won't leave them in there like I do in the cooler months since the inside temp might get up to 140 plus degrees.

I think home storage temperature isn't nearly as important as keeping them at a stable humidity and temperature for the long term.
turnberry
23 years ago
Grizz.........
The old wet box temptation. No comment and I am going to bed now 🙂
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