Samuel Thompson wrote:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.

I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts.

They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game. "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.

And we are in the Bible Belt. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect-somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.

If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...

"But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate.

Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will make that call.

One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights.

Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing.

Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. "GOD, HELP US". And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want. It is time the majority rules!

It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray, you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right.

But by golly you are no longer going to take our rights away...we are fighting back...and we WILL WIN! After all, the God you have the right to denounce is on our side!

God bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him...

God bless America, despite all her faults.. still the greatest nation of all.....

God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God...

May 2003 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

Keep looking up......In God WE Trust

I didnt write it, I just like it.... :>)

Mag

The last part is quite funny!! The religious right wants to re-write the rules of our country to end the separation of church and state.

Mag = (Rickamaven - Liberalism) + 2 doses religious right conservatism

:-)

Where is this seperation you speak of? It's not in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Declaration of Independence.

It is noted in the "Federalist Papers", but those are not laws.

ARGUMENT ONE: The phrase "separation of church and state" is not found in the Constitution

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely true, and absolutely irrelevant. As noted earlier, separationists take this language from Thomas Jefferson's 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists in which he argued that the Constitution created a "wall of separation between church and state." But, as noted above, separationists have never taken the phrase as anything more than a handy (if historically significant) summary of the intent of the religion clauses of the First Amendment. Separationist scholar Leo Pfeffer, for example, notes:

"No magic attaches to a particular verbalization of an underlying concept. The concept at issue here is more accurately expressed in Madison's phrase 'separation between Religion and Government,' or in the popular maxim that 'religion is a private matter.'" (Church, State, and Freedom, pp. 118-119).

Second, accommodationists don't apply this argument consistently. Pfeffer, for example, observes that:

(T)he phrase "Bill of Rights" has become a convenient term to designate the freedoms guaranteed in the first ten amendments; yet it would be the height of captiousness to argue that the phrase does not appear in the Constitution. Similarly, the right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term "fair trial" is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer to home, who would deny that "religious liberty" is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including "separation of church and state," have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles (pp. 118).

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm 

Exactly.

The founding fathers had a solid base in religion. For many it was the reason they came here, but they didn't want a "state sponsored" religion like England had. Reading into more than what is there is something agnostic and athesits have fits over.

It's the same kind of crap as the Andy Rooney post, written in order to make people feel as though they're being taken advantage of and that they're victims. Basically it’s just worthless rabble rousing.

I do not want any type of religion at the base of our institutions, all should be welcomed but none favored.

That why this so-called separation is a crock!

There is no separation! You can be whatever you want. Look at your money...go on...what does it say?

Look at that website and you'll find many answers to the common questions that you are asking... And a lot more info concerning this debate and the real implications.

I'm already aware of the subject.

That's why I posed the question. Anyone that says the US has this so-called separation doesn't know what they're talking about. It's not law. Only principal.

That's why I referred to them as our rules, not laws. There are many parts of the constitution that are interpreted on the principles set forth by the founders, this one however has such stark opposition by some that they simply refuse the principles while steadfastly defending others.

Definitely an interesting debate though!

This could get ugly.

I like to see professional sports players get together to pray before and/of after a game. Especially when both teams combine to do it. There can be nothing morally wrong than competitors doing this, especially in front of thousands if not millions of people.

These are the role models of our young. I would rather have them learn from this example than the example set by some athletes who prefer to party and live without rules.

Prayer never hurt anyone. It is neither offensive nor dangerous. The only thing offensive and dangerous is to take one's religion and treating it as the only right one. To attempt to recruit those who do not share your beliefs by telling them that what they and their parents have believed is wrong.

Public display of faith is not the problem. Lack of faith of some kind...is. I am not Christian, but prayer in itself and the belief in G-d is not the sole property of Christians.

I don't think lack of faith is a problem at all, I'm quite happy without it and I live a good life. Hence the reasoning for freedom of religion, or no religion as the case may be...

rayder1

shalom

"The only thing offensive and dangerous is to take one's religion and treating it as the only right one. To attempt to recruit those who do not share your beliefs by telling them that what they and their parents have believed is wrong."

i have never heard that so succinctly phrased. it is the crux of the problem faced by christians and non-christians. christians are asked to go forth and testify. non christians are not interested.

then the crusades to convert or kill the heathen, who have a perfectly satisfying relegion of their own.

christ would be furious with the knowledge of the use of his name to justify what is done in his name

Chris. I am not referring to agnostics or atheists as having lack of faith. I'm referring to those that live for themselves and no one else. Have no regard or thought of consequence.

People who recognize themselves as being Agnostics and Atheists still have faith in life and in themselves. Both beliefs result in caring, concerned, loving people even though they chose not to believe in a supreme being or entity. What difference does it make. They just shouldn't try to sell it to those that believe, that they are fools for believing in a supreme being. (and vice versa).

Well said Raydar!

Spiny Norman

(Agnostic)

Gotcha Rayder, I agree completely!!

The best explanation of religous views I have heard is

Those who believe need no explanation to believe and for those who do not believe no explanation is good enough to believe. Leave all others alone and you will be fine.

Everthing else is all interpretation

cooksta,

Thats the best explanation I have heard in a long long time... Hat's Off to ya!!!!

Spiney and I have argued (which put me in a lower catagory than I should have been) because I don't have cradentials (sp) for what I know and believe in I just know it's there!!!! but yet any man who doesn't believe can give you a million reasons as to why it isn't there!!!! in the end all will be judged and at that time man or woman will face their own choices!!!!

Hog

again as far a Muslum religion, if they wear the vail, means they are Married? is this woman married or just pushing an Issue??? doesn't really matter!!! she should have the same laws as everyone else no matter what the religion!!!! my Christian Faith doesn't get me lower points on a Mortgage!!!!! and they even made me take my hat off for my Picture!!!! I take my hat off for two things... when working it's to enter a building... at home it's non of your damn buisness!!!!

Hog