I know these are put out by Alec Bradley, so are they merely the seconds of the Occidental lines, or are they seconds from any of Kelner's cigars, such as Avo and Zino? Because I just had my first Kelner 2nd and I could've sworn I was smoking an Avo by the way it looked and tasted.

i don't know.

I'm not sure either. Some of the other sites say what they should be "compared to".

I've seen these also called "Special Blends by Alec Bradley". They may have started as seconds but it seems to be becoming a separate product. I can't imagine Davidoff and Avo seconds getting in the hands of Alec Bradley. I suspect these are Occidental. If I thought they were Avos, I would be hording them!

Kelner's are actually listed and to my knowledge are, seconds of Avo's, Griffins and Davidoff's. Despite the fact that they all the same wrapper, the binders and fillers are those mentioned above.

~E

Spoke to a guy that owns a local shop that deals a LOT of Kelner, Davidoff, et. al. He said that they are not seconds from Davidoff or AVO, or from Occidental. I showed him a printout of this thread, and he stated that they are actually a completely different blend altogether. It's a partnership between Bradley and Allen Rubin. Also, they are now called "Special Blend" and have bands on them showing this. His entire stock looked to be all banded. He said that there was a problem in Europe, and it was requested that they change the name, and put bands on them. At least, that is the story I was told today. Who knows? Maybe it's BS, but he didn't seem to be making it up.

I have both the Kelner Seconds in the Corona size and AVO's in the Petit Corona size. I don't know from what factory the seconds are made... but the wrapper and taste of the two are very, very similar if not identical. I have quit buying AVO altogether because the Kelner Seconds are such a close substitute.

Oops... make that the Petit Belicosa AVO. Sorry. 😞