mrkmitch
22 years ago
Ikon's recent posting raises a question, what is a "super premium". Is there a clear hard line drawn between "premiums" and "super premiums", or is it the subjective decision of the smoker. I think there are some very tasty smokes out there I wouldn't consider "super premiums", by my taste, but is there a definitive list of "super premiums". Does it have something to do with ratings? Then I suggest that different people rate different cigars differently, even the most respected tasters will have different opinions of the same cigar. Just curious what this subjective term means to the rest of you.
Slimboli
22 years ago
A premium or super-premium cigar is a cigar made by hand and should be consistent from one cigar to the next. A premium or super-premium cigar is 100% tobacco, and each stage of the cigar's creation is controlled by humans. And, keep in mind, some of the best cigars are not the most expensive.

I read once, that another variety of "premium" cigar is what is sometimes referred to as the "super premium." (Usually super-priced, too). These cigars are genuinely a cut-above the average premium because they are made with specially selected tobaccos and higher grade wrappers (the most expensive part of the cigar).

Super premiums also tend to have been aged longer which enhances the taste and complexity of the cigar. Brands which are touted as super-premiums include such labels as Cohiba (Red Dot), Avo, Montecristo, Davidoff, Punch Gran Cru Reserva, Partagas Black Label, Fuente Don Carlos and Don Tomas Dominican Selection.

I also once read, that the the president of one of the largest manufacturers of fine cigars said he doesn’t smoke even his own super-premiums. "Too expensive for too little difference in performance," he opined.

There are only so many cigar makers, and most roll cigars under a lot of brand names, both nationally-advertised and private-label. In many cases, a super-premium, a private-label, and a "second" are the same, identical cigars, all off the same rolling table! The lowly second is relegated to lower status ... and a lower shelf in the retailer’s humidor ... but, often it’s merely because of an irregularity in the leaf color, a rain spot or two, or perhaps an errant vein that gives a snaggy edge to the leaf in one spot.

There's an immense cartload of psychological and sociological baggage associated with cigars. They're the big status symbol, like BMWs in the '80's. Whoopee. Buying $7 to $15 specimens may impress friends and clients, but tens of thousands of veteran smokers of premium cigars ... as well as the guys in the industry ... know the price often belies the performance. The fact is, many times the unremarkable cigars, the ones you must bend over to see on a lower shelf at the tobacconist’s, outperform the stars ...

Until aficionados gain a knowledge base, they’ll swallow the advertising hyperbole that "the more expensive, the better."

Prestige is nice, if you can afford it. But for us mere mortals, what we save by smart shopping buys us more cigars, better cigars, or maybe that two hundred-passenger humidor we're drooling over. To me, prestige is handing a delicious cigar to a friend and watching his face when he learns it cost a third of his prized specimen.

One last thought: Too often, we smoke expensive cigars to the death, because they cost so much we’re determined to get our money’s worth. Doesn’t it make more sense to buy two good cigars that cost half as much and only smoke them to the midpoint, quitting before they turn on us like a Doberman going for his master’s throat?
Robby
22 years ago
I have many of the Supers, but agree that other cigars I have enjoyed just as much if not more, some almost completely unknown! Smoke what you like and like what you smoke.
Messier11
22 years ago
Bravo gentlemen!!!
A great question and an even greater answer.
billyjackson
22 years ago
Slim comes through once again.

(Not being sarcastic...Really...good answer...I feel informed.)
smithbw
22 years ago
While I agree with Slim's assessment I would like to add that there is (In Some Labels) a marked difference in taste and complexity when buying the Super Premiums. One label that immediately comes to mind is, Padron.

My point you ask? Try a few super premiums like the PAM 26 or 64 and then try a Padron 2, 3, or 5K. You will notice a distinct difference in complexity and taste IMHO.

Regards,


B
Slimboli
22 years ago
While I agree with you somewhat, smithbw, and you do make some sense on what you are trying to get across ... you are comparing different lines, within a given factory ... that use different fillers, binders and wrappers for each particular line.

I'm sure that if you compare the Padron 2, 3, or 5K 'seconds' to the 'real deal' (if there is such a thing, and would go under a different name), you wouldn't notice much (if any) difference ...
smithbw
22 years ago
Agreed! Taking in consideration the binder, filler (Long or Short) and of course the wrapper is what constiutes a good VS a "Great" cigar.

If we continue to compare cigars under the same lable sucha as Fuente line (For an Example) the Opus X is far better, in my opinon, than say a Curly Head. I know what you are going to say. The Curly Head is short filler and it simply cannot compare to a long filler but that brings me back to the initial point which is that "Sometimes" you do get what you pay for - Especially if you stay with a specific line.

Regards,


B
Slimboli
22 years ago
I guess I didn't make myself as clear as I thought I did.

What I was trying to convey ... is that the 'seconds' of any given line are really no different from the 'premium' or 'super premium' that they were destined to be ... and are the same, identical cigars, except for the fact, that merely because of an irregularity in the leaf color, a rain spot or two, or perhaps an errant vein that gives a snaggy edge to the leaf in one spot ... they didn't make it to the 'top shelf'.

... I was not comparing all cigars under the same factory name or label, but the cigars that are of the same line ...
godfather1453406
22 years ago
To me, premiums and super are really based on taste rather then price. I used to base it on price alone but I am finding that my favorite smokes are about 5 bucks rather then the 10 dollar ones. Slim you did a good job explaining the difference I was just adding my 2 cents.
THL
  • THL
  • Herf-A-Holic
22 years ago
I think the Savinelli 2nds that are around right now illustrate Slim's point pretty well. Usually 1/3 - 1/5 of the price of the "1sts." And damn tasty.
mrtelcom
22 years ago
My definition is Super-premos are premiums that you can't just go out and pick up after hitting a couple shops or web sites - ISOM's, special releases, vintage releases, etc. So I consider my Partagas 150's, AF UTS, 858SG, ISOM, PAM '26s, Masterpiece Maduros, etc.

So to me, it is proportional to how hard it is to replace it.

mrkmitch
22 years ago
Wow, I appreciate all the opinions. I do agree that there is a myth about the "more you pay", but, for instance, mrtelcom listed several of his choices for super premiums including AF858SG. And I might agree (as I do with most of his list), but I do know other BOTL that have the 858SG as a "daily go to". So where I would consider the 858SG as a super premium, because I don't have enough of them to be a "daily go to" smoke I'm sure others might not, because it is a "daily got to" smoke for them. So yes, it may be more about the ability to afford, availability, and/ or keep quantity enough to be considered Super Premium.

I also understand what Slim is saying about the seconds, and although he is correct, that the taste will be similar, if not identical, the quality of the smoke may vary due to consistancy of construction, be it a veiny wrapper, or a discoloration in the leaf, or the fact that many seconds are made from the leaf clippings of the first line hand rolled from that maker.

I was wanting to hear how others thought about the term "Super Premium" and it sounds like most are all on the same page, some just have better sticks resting in their parking spaces than others. So, when I got blasted for offering that a Buc Full Sail or Z might be a good offering for Ikon to herf on his special Sunday smoke it raised a question in me that I thought I'd ask the rest of my BOTL's here at Cbid.

Appreciate all the oinions, keep 'em coming.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em,
mrkmitch
mrkmitch
22 years ago
P.S.
Here's a kink:
If availability is a key to determining what is a super premium then that would logically deduce that all ISOM's are super premiums, which I wouldn't agree with. There are some non-ISOM brands that I would consider a better taste than some ISOM's. Any thoughts?
mrtelcom
22 years ago
I think it is availability to the individual, whether it be budget, connections, etc.

I consider all ISOM's to be super premiums, because, of every 5 I buy, 4 turn out to be a disapointment. When you hit, those get stored in the premium coolerdor.

BTW - on a related note, I have pretty much decided to swear off all ISOM's .. I keep getting disapointed. I can't remember the last disapointment with an Ashton VSG, or good AF product.
ikonoklast7
22 years ago
That's the sad fact with ISOMs

Cuba has all the potential to be the greatest cigar-growing country in the world: perfect soil, perfect temperature, perfect rainfall, etc.

But ever since the Soviet Union fell and could no longer offer foreign aid to Cuba, the island has been in hard economic straits.

And as we know, it takes at least 3 year to age a cigar properly so it's even anywhere near smokable...but if Cuba gets an order for a million cigars from the UK, Canada, etc. and only has enough tobacco for 800,000...they'll roll up 200,000 smokes from leaf just picked that day if need be and ship it out, because they desperately need that money!

Even if you buy it in the big foreign markets, like Spain, Britain, or Canada, Habanos can be a disappointment...but God! Never buy one straight from a store in Havana! They save what's left over for the home market...and most of that crap is downright terrible!
mrtelcom
22 years ago
I am also disapPointed at my spelling.
Users browsing this topic