always tears, lots of complaining. ****awe tribe.

We have seen this before , but never with the knowledge of the Great God of Sun Hedgehogs before . Thank you...

Gosh, Why would dems or anyone else be less than content? The last 7 years with the Bush administration has been such a great thing! Right? He's done a good job! Right? My God! How F'd up do things have to get before some people learn? Amazing!

"How F'd up do things have to get before some people learn? Amazing!"

I often wonder that too! I keep hearing the Democrats whining about how much beter the economy was under Clinton. But then, the economy at that time was based on tax estimates based on the coked books of corporations like Enron, and Worldcom. Bush keeps getting accused of giving away the country to the corporations, but who did they thrive under, and who did the book cookers get caught under? The Democrats would gripe when a cop caught a burgler that the cop was responsible for the burglary! We'be been cursed with a pile of Republicans who spend like Democrats, and on about the same crap! Now thanks to McCain Feingold, the liberal mainstream media has a large say in who gets the Republican nomination, and then immediately starts tearing him down! Meanwhile on the other side, we have a two term Senator calling a one term Senator a neophyte! We have someone who is about the antithesis of JFK being compared to him by JFKs own family, and we're getting to watch Billery come unhinged, because no one named Clinton has ever had their ass handed to them before ("don't they know we are the President?") Cghange, purely for changes sake, is RARELY good. I see at best, a repeat of the Ford/Carter Debacle on the horizon, and that wil be followed by a replay of the banking crash of the 1980's. More businesses will migrate overseas, and more American entrepreneurs will sit back, and do nothing to avoid placing themselves in a higher tax bracket, and be punished for higher productivity. The decrease in taxable income will lead to a decrease in revenue, ans the whole thing will collapse under the weight of the unfunded social programs. Then someone will step forward, and deregulate what got regulated under Obama/Hillery, cut taxes (after they repeal the Bush tax cuts, and encourage growth again. That is, IF we even have enough market share left to work with after Obama gets done with all the protectionist trade policy he's promised the labor unions!

yes, I agree, when WILL they learn?

"Bush keeps getting accused of giving away the country to the corporations . . . "

Ever Heard of Dubai Ports World ?

CW - keep in mind the Repulicants controlled congress during the Clinton years.

And you're gonna blame Clinton because Enron cooked the books? Ken Lay was a personal friend of GWB! It was a Texas based company.

This is part of what is wrong today - no longer can we have civil debates. Clinton is always brought up and he has been out of office for 8 years. LMAO!

c3s

CWFoster,

In case you haven't noticed, we already have a replay of the 1980s banking crisis going on and it has put the nation into recession.

and Jetblasted, Dubai Ports World is a fine company and we should be greatful that they and other sovereign wealth funds are willing to buy up the United States even with our massive debt overhang. As a nation, we should be grateful to Dubai, Temasek in Singapore, and China in general.

CW - keep in mind the Repulicants controlled congress during the Clinton years. - for HALF of them!

And you're gonna blame Clinton because Enron cooked the books? Ken Lay was a personal friend of GWB! It was a Texas based company. - ok, who did Ken Lay get BUSTED under?

This is part of what is wrong today - no longer can we have civil debates. Clinton is always brought up and he has been out of office for 8 years. LMAO! - excuse me, is a civil debate one where the other side either doesn't show up, or keeps their mouths shut if they do? I haven't said or done anything to silence anyone with a differing opinion, so how is that not having a civil debate? I haven't blamed Clinton for anybody cooking the books, only pointed out that the pie in the sky ecomomy was based on those figures, as were the tax surplus forcasts, that the FDemocrats like to point to as the product of Clintons Administration. If a politician wants top take credit for a boom based on coked boks, shouldn't he be willing to accept the bust that occurs whan the charade is exposed? (Politicians createprosperity like flies cause garbage. the best way for government to promote prosperity is to get out of the way of commerce!)

c3s

CWF

"CWFoster,

In case you haven't noticed, we already have a replay of the 1980s banking crisis going on and it has put the nation into recession.

and Jetblasted, Dubai Ports World is a fine company and we should be greatful that they and other sovereign wealth funds are willing to buy up the United States even with our massive debt overhang. As a nation, we should be grateful to Dubai, Temasek in Singapore, and China in general."

Thanks HockeyDad, for proving my above point! In the aftermath of 9/11, in an effort to keep the US economy from tanking, the Fed lowered interest rates, and money became incredibly cheap. The Japanese and especially the Chinese joined in the spending spree, and soon, anybody who was credit worty had all the money they needed to accomplish whatever they had in mind, but the banks still had alot of money to lend, ad with the lower rates, needed to loan out even more to keep profits up. So they began issuing debt to less than credit worthy parties, mostly on what was long regarded as prime investments, underwriting home mortgages. They enticed people who were too close to the edge with teaser rates into ARM's and then bundled the morgages together and sold the paper to raise more money to lend, then bundled the resulting paper (dirivatives) together into larger dirivatives, which they sold to other entities under the same corporate umbrella. They saw the subprime debacle coming, and began to sweat, because too large a percentage of their net value was based on the face value of the underlying subprime mortgages, a fair to large percentage (yet to be fully determined)of which were

(oops) destined to go into default. So, the moral of the story is... the current mess is due to the government trying to help, instead of allowing business and industry to take their lumps and move on!

Ronald Reagan said "the most frightening nine words in the english language are 'I'm with the governent, and I'm here to help

CWFoster,

Can you list the companies with cooked books during the 1990s and what their actual share of the pie in the sky ecomomy was?

You;ll find out it was a tiny fraction compared to the tens of thousands of companies with legit accounting.

The reality is the economy was pretty good during the Clinton years, not that Clinton necessarily deserves the credit for it.

actually, if you read the economics lesson I posted on another thread, Clinton deserves about as much credit for it, as Bush deserves blame for the current mess, (well, Bush probably deserves a bit more blame, since the Fed was messing with the economy at his behest) a recession historically takes about 8-9 months to shake out, but if the Fed keep dangling hope, the companies that got themselves into the mess to begin with, delay taking the write-offs and drag it out, and thus the government can turn a bad year into a bad decade.

The problem is the Fed had to mess with the economy because we couldn't allow a prolonged recession due to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. We had to recover fast and so we got the Greenspan housing bubble. Life was good for a few years and now the bubble popped.

As the Greenspan Bubble was setting the consumers up for a horrible prolonged fall, the government also took on a couple of trillion dollars in debt while interest rates were low.

By standard corporate accounting practices, the USA Federal government is bankrupt. They don't have to follow corporate accounting practices because the theory is they can tax their way out of any hole!

Outside of the financial sector, US corporations are very strong right now. The consumer is dead and borrowed to the hilt. In the words of Terrible Terry Tate, get ready for the pain! Woo Woo!

Hey Jet...Clinton is/was a spokesman for Dubai Ports World. I heard that much about 'em.

I know also the Supreme Court isn't handing down stupid decisions based on personal feelings anymore. They're actually using the Constitution. Amazing. Another 8 years without a lefty in Office should make it even better.

Drathaar,

Which one isn't a "lefty"? Clinton-44, Hussein Obama, or McRino?

It is all going to hell in a handbasket.

Funny...this sould be the seal of the sad state that all our government has led this nation to...time to sweep the dirt under the rug and get back to the strong nation we use to resemble!

...and we will rename that strong nation the "North American Union".

Hockeydad, I'm not responsible for any of the three and wish they would all go away. My two picks dropped out early, Duncan Hunter (#1) and Fred Thompson. After they dropped I was for Romney, then he dropped. Romney wasn't a great candidate, but he was far and above better than Huckadork and McRINO.

I voted for Ronald Reagan in the primary last week. So McRINO still isn't my fault.

When I lived in California, Duncan Hunter was my representative. I voted for him.

I like your Reagan vote. I worked on his 1984 re-election campaign. ...also Jesse Helms that year.

#3

Did you invest in the stock market when GWB became president? Did you buy oil stocks? If you did you would be much happier. God helps those that help themselves!