Here is something I found interesting. This site won't ship lighters via ups or dhl because of FAA regulations but there are 2 other sites that don't have that problem. I wonder why this is? I am not complaining but it is something that makes you go hummmmm.

some chick's do and some chick's don't...

oh yea, and you need them to light you up...

a cigar...

The lighter I bought from here was full of butane, so it has to go ground.

I've bought others that were empty and they can be shipped any way you wish.

Directly from Cigars International:

Note: Due to FAA regulations, lighters must be shipped via ground parcel services. Express shipping is not available.

So, the way I interpet that statment, that includes ANY carrier that ships ground, including UPS and DHL ground services.

Violations of the Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR) can result in severe penalties of up to $27,500 per violation, and often multiple violations can occur with just a single shipment. Unfortunately lighers containing butane are listed under the HMR.

Due to the various requirements, the shipper must mark the shipment with the proper shipping name and UN identification number; label the shipment with the proper label for the contents, as well as orientation arrows for liquid shipments or a "CARGO AIRCRAFT ONLY" label when the material cannot be carried on a passenger-carrying aircraft; use correct specification packaging; declare the Hazmat to the carrier; and to certify that the contents are properly classed and in condition for shipment. In addition, violations occur when, for example, there is a release of the material to the environment, quantity limitations are exceeded, or there was a failure to train the persons handling the shipment.

Cigarette lighters or similar devices (such as mini-or micro-torches) equipped with an ignition element and containing gaseous fuel are regulated under the HMR as Lighters or Lighter refills and subject to the provisions of Secs. 173.21 and 173.308. Section 173.21 forbids the transportation of packages containing a cigarette lighter or similar device equipped with an ignition element and containing fuel, except that a cigarette lighter or a similar device may be shipped if the design of the device and its inner packaging has been examined by an approved laboratory, and specifically approved by the Associate Administrator for Hazardous Materials Safety. Transportation

regulations which apply to these devices include fuel capacity and filling limits, pressure capability of the device, and packaging restrictions. Devices containing a flammable gas must conform to the

quantity limits and packaging requirements specified in Sec. 173.308.

Carriers, such as United Parcel Serice or FedEx Ground must know what is contained within the package that is being shipped. Failure to inform the carrier can result in them being held liable for an undeclared shipment of hazardous materials, with possible imposition of the penalties.

So who would like to pay $27,000 for a lighter? Any takers?

I think the real question here is why would someone else take the chance in shipping a $50 lighter via air. If, for some reason, the package gets stopped, it would take days or possibly weeks for you to get your lighter. Plus, if we got slapped with a $27,000 fine from the FAA, your $10 5 packs would suddenly cost $12.

I'm sure we could "slip" the lighter in with a UPS or DHL Air package, but I know that all of our customers are comforted knowing that we adhere to all of the laws that govern our industry.

BikerBob1961 --- Marke@Cigarbid makes a very good point.

And ... it certainly does make me go "hummmmmmmmmm", at why those 'other' sites would take such a risk and jeopardize their business ...

I understand, even though its a full lighter and was shipped UPS the box says GND - ground - then its ok. That sounds like it don't have to be PP as long as its not an air transport. Is this true? Thanks for the info.

The thing to remember with couriers like Fed Ex and UPS, they will occasionally send Ground packages using their planes and in some cases trains. They will do this to play catch up for a package that has fallen behind its scheduled delivery date. Because there is a chance of that happening, the Postal Service is really the only group that has a guaranteed ground service. It is really irrelevant if the lighter is full, partially filled or empty. There is always a chance there will be a trace of butane which instantly changes the classification of the lighter from empty to full.

We are just following orders. Orders that have been mandated by a much higher authority. We are not thrilled with the shipping requirements either. It creates extra packaging; extra expenses and adds another package to the mix that we need to account for and make sure gets delivered.

I hope this adds a little to the previous explanations.

I found it is usually wise to follow orders, especially if it's the "4LP" that are giving them to me...

Sorry but what is a "4LP"? I looked it up on the boards and couldn't find it.

I just found out that my order could take up to three weeks (or longer?) because it has to go US Postal Service ground. The description of the item only says that due to FAA regulations, ground parcel service is reguired. To me, this could be interpreted to include UPS ground delivery which takes at the most six days from coast to coast. I believe you owe it to your customers to inform them that the FAA discalaimer in fact refers to the exclusive use of the US Postal Service, which in my case will take up to three weeks. I don't know about your other customers, but I would prefer not having my cigars bouncing around from one post office to another for three weeks. Had I known this I would not have bid on the item in the first place and take a chance on receiving dried out cigars. I would appreciate your feedback.

Other than during the Christmas rush, 3 weeks from any one point in the country to any other would be unlikely, even from such a grossly inefficient operation as the USPS ...

Two to three weeks was the expected delivery time for USPS ground according to customer service at Cigarbid.com.

Since the issue seems to regard the shipping of lighters and they can only be shipped via ground, why not use a faster service like UPS ground? Since you must declare the contents of the package, doesn't it then become the responsibility of the shipper to make sure the lighter "never leaves the ground?"

To answer your last question, rob sack ... the answer to that would be 'no' ... the shipper has no control over how the lighter is shipped, they can only specify how they want it shipped.

Read the last post by rogerf@cigarbid ... that pretty much explains it.

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Author: rob sack Date: 11/29/2004 03:07 PM

Two to three weeks was the expected delivery time for USPS ground according to customer service at Cigarbid.com.

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Well, sure ... they tell you that so it gives as long a window as possible ... if they tell you a week to ten days and it takes 12, you're POd ... on the other hand, if they tell you two to three weeks and it comes in 12 days, you're happy ...

I've sent a lot of stuff to different places in the US and doubt seriously that in real life it'd take more than a week to ten days to make it all the way across the continent ... so even if you're on the West Coast as I am, you should be alright ... of course, Chrismas rush CAN and will add to that time and it IS getting to be that time of year ...

Somwhat of a threadjack ..on:

To cbid crew...I ordered the Greycliff special back on the 18th. I understnad the need to go ground based on it having a lighter. Given I am in VA, how long does it/should it take to get here? I haven't recieved it and I could have driven up to ya'll and picked it up...

Thanks Dave

Threadjack off...