superb article.

3 people got waterboarded during Bush's presidency. Probably 1000's got saved.

But the terrorists got it right on one part, regarding their disdain for the will of the American people.

Didn't the Japs invent waterboarding during WW2?

Japs=not a very complimentary term.

But my understanding is that it (waterboarding) dates back to the Inquisition

it was a good read and valid debate

Good read, thanks.

This comment on the article stood out:

"Enhanced interrogation techniques, i.e. waterboarding, "allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles". So what. Big deal. The lives of a few thousand in LA are not worth what we did to Khalid Sheik Mohammed's self esteem, not to mention earning the disrespect of the French. Just kidding, of course--I'm not really a liberal. But now that Obama et al have released all of the CIA procedures on enhanced interrogation, the terrorists know that they have nothing to fear from us but a little humiliation. We'll never be able to crack one of them again and Americans will die as a result."

"japs"

It's a funny word.

I don't think that I've ever used it to describe Japanese people, except when speaking (or writing) about WWII. In which case I've used it on numerous occassions.

Odd.

It is derived from a Chinese water "torture."

Of course, accroding to the memos relased by His Excellency Barack (Idi Amin) Hussein (boy whiner) Obama, if you learn to hold your breath for 45 seconds, you can nullify this as an interrogation technique.

'.. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’..'

------------------------------------------------------

Agreed. We've become a country of over-sensitive, easily offended pussies working on the uber-queer and gutless mandate of making everything "safe".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding 

My view on this if it saves 1 American then it’s worth it , at least we don’t freaking behead them with freaking dull knives, but I guess thats ok to do in some peoples eyes .

Semper Fi Bryan (Bubba)

My post on the "If anyone had any doubts" post:

" 20. Author: Lizardo Date: 04/22/2009 12:19 AM Reply

So what? Some bad guys got waterboarded, I don’t **** care. While I agree that info obtained under such interrogation tactics might not be credible, it doesn’t bother me that some scum bag terrorists were waterboarded. I have ZERO sympathy for them. "

The Marxists speak:

1. Author: RICKAMAVEN Date: 04/21/2009 03:28 PM Reply

released the descriptive torture memos.

watch justice Jay S. Bybee get impeached and have his license to practice law revoked.

watch cheney disappear to a country that has a no extradition policy.

follow the bouncing ball

The Japs did a hell of a lot more than waterboarding during WWII . . . They were f#cking monsters . . .

My Uncle spent 4 & 1/2 years in a Japanese Prison Camp . . .

Don't get me started on their attrocities . . .

They should play the Beach Boys in the background while they are doing it.

3. Author: djk Date: 04/21/2009 06:22 PM Reply

Didn’t the Japs invent waterboarding during WW2?

====================================================

According to Peter Griffin, WW2 was the "International Civil War #2."

We should start using power tools or offer them free dentistry!

They could practice on Murtha, Pelosi and Reid to make sure they have their techniques down pat!

This may be relavant former State Department lawyer under Condoleeza Rice, Philip Zelikow who says that the Bush administration attempted to destroy all copies of an alternative memo on interrogation techniques he wrote in 2005.

At the time, in 2005, I circulated an opposing view of the legal reasoning. My bureaucratic position, as counselor to the secretary of state, didn't entitle me to offer a legal opinion. But I felt obliged to put an alternative view in front of my colleagues at other agencies, warning them that other lawyers (and judges) might find the OLC views unsustainable. My colleagues were entitled to ignore my views. They did more than that: The White House attempted to collect and destroy all copies of my memo. I expect that one or two are still at least in the State Department's archives.

Stated in a shorthand way, mainly for the benefit of other specialists who work these issues, my main concerns were:

the case law on the "shocks the conscience" standard for interrogations would proscribe the CIA's methods;

the OLC memo basically ignored standard 8th Amendment "conditions of confinement" analysis (long incorporated into the 5th amendment as a matter of substantive due process and thus applicable to detentions like these). That case law would regard the conditions of confinement in the CIA facilities as unlawful.

the use of a balancing test to measure constitutional validity (national security gain vs. harm to individuals) is lawful for some techniques, but other kinds of cruel treatment should be barred categorically under U.S. law -- whatever the alleged gain.

The underlying absurdity of the administration's position can be summarized this way. Once you get to a substantive compliance analysis for "cruel, inhuman, and degrading" you get the position that the substantive standard is the same as it is in analogous U.S. constitutional law. So the OLC must argue, in effect, that the methods and the conditions of confinement in the CIA program could constitutionally be inflicted on American citizens in a county jail.

This may be too intellectual for most of you but give a try

OK so I guess I get the message.

The end always justifies the means.

This is exactly the crap that the United States must abhor. Many of you confuse me. In one conversation you speak of your high morals, sanctity of life, and freedom for your religion to be dominant.

In the next conversation you speak of execution, torture, the president is worthless, the ends justify the means. It’s ok if it isn’t me kind of rant. Justice for you, but mercy for me.

Kinda reminds me of the German people in 1939.

“Quote from article”

“Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that ‘the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa’ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.”

The mighty CIA has just discounted all the other Americans in the war on terror as ineffective and useless. The countless public service members and good citizens are not capable of discovering and collapsing any of these plans? HOOEY!

The world trade center attacks were discoverable. Now we know to suspect strange behavior and discuss it with local authorities. Why do we not fear another Tim McVeigh, yet we fear Muslim practicing camel riding goat herders.

Where is the line and is it moveable? If this then that?

Why not waterboard their wife and families? That would be effective! Why not saran wrap their head and just poke a little hole for a breath just before passing out, what about electric shock? Let’s call it therapy.

I do not care if the info seems valuable. I do not make the leap that because they ratted the plan that the plan was foiled, nor that we could not foil the plan without the info. These are all exculpatory statements by rationalizing complicit perps.

What in the hell do we stand for in this country? Are we world leaders? What are we so afraid of? Living free has a price. I repeat if you want complete security then move to North Korea where the Dear Father is sure to keep you safe.

Kill the enemy where you can, if you capture them instead of killing them then interrogate them without torture and stay vigilant in your communities.

The price for freedom is paid in blood. Just remember it is WORTH it!

If you give up a little freedom for a little security soon you will have neither. (Churchill)

Concerning "Japs" my father fought in the South Pacfic in WWII and always.......

and I mean ALLLLWAYSSSSSS called em JAPS.

But me I don't feel the need and think it discourteous, but I don't have the personal experiences of my father.

pro,

"The mighty CIA has just discounted all the other Americans in the war on terror as ineffective and useless."

??????

Why does the observation that interogation is a "Key" reason lead you to believe that they consider all other efforts "useless"?

When a kid hits a game winning single and is praised as a "key" contributor to the teams victory, is that discounting all the other players efforts?

It's this type of liberal mentality that I find abhorant. Your so afraid to give credit where credit is due, that you end up eliminating effective components in fear of offending the others who contribute.