a history lesson

nuf said!

I for one would love to see some gun control.













I think anyone who has guns need to know how to control them. Maybe then we will less people shot in thier homes from stray rounds. Just a thought.

....and none of those people in those countries had guns to defend themselves?

Do you fear your government? Just curious.

ABSOLUTELY!! One would be a fool not to fear their government. Far wiser and more learned men than I certainly did.

Take a guess as to who stated the following:

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is FORCE! Like fire, it is a dangereous servant and a FEARFUL master. (EMPHASIS added).

Keep in mind that those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it!

Purp.

adroomi.......that's the point. Those countries disarmed their public PRIOR to massacres. Don't we see this in China now? Tiananmen square? Rounding up Christian dissidents?

So when should we expect to see a massacre in England and in Australia? Didn't I see on TV not long ago about how they dissarmed the people in those country's?

I'd say we don't expect it to be the rule. I would say it's the best way to subject the masses to tyranny.

The U.N. wants all nations to outlaw personal ownership of firearms.

...do you see it in China now? A few things have changed since June 4th, 1989.

I haven't seen much change in China since 1700 BC.

1700 BC... Emperor,Govenors,Warlords ruled and the peasants were treated as slaves.


2005 AD... Communist Dictator, Puppet Cabinet, Generals rule and the peasants are treated as slaves.

JonR

Your knowledge of China is quite limited I see.

China was the largest and most powerful kingdom in the world. They ruled the seas, and the land long before the West. They mapped the world many years before Columbus, Magellan, or the Portuguese. They had the strongest empire in the world for thousands of years.

Did they fall, NO! They burned the history books, built a wall to keep out what they foresaw as the fall of mankind in the future, and went into seclusion for the next 250 years........stating that in the 21st century they would again lead the world, but only after the west and east had fallen due to their own shortsightedness.

Well, it's now the 21st century and 80% of the worlds people under the age of 14 live in China. Over 80% of these kids speak English. There are more people with broadband internet in China than in America. 14 times more Chinese than Americans travelled to foreign countries in 2004 on HOLIDAY. The Chinese tourism industry can hardly keep up with the increased travel requirements of Chinese citizens. The Chinese airline market is the fastest growing and LARGEST in the world (as a sidenote, I would like to point out that the US is the only country in the world with negative figures in the airline industry, everyone else is prospering).

There are more practicing Christians in China by the way then in the western half of the USA as of 2003.

You are speaking of a country that made a pact to go into seclusion and renew their goal to rule the world. They held onto that pact, and as of 5 years ago, they started opening the doors again. Guess what.....smart people are realizing that these are some really genius people.

Do you need more?

Yes .

Questions:

1) Are there more millionaires in China than America?

2) Is China as rich in resources as America?

3) Do the people of China get to elect their dictators?

4) Does the Chaiman sit in on town meetings to hear how the citizens feel about the way he is running the country and ask for their advice?

5) Do the people of China enjoy the same freedoms we do in America?

6) Do the rice farmers still have to turn over most of their crops to the government?

7) Do hundreds of thousands of China's population still starve to death on a yearly basis?

8) Do parents in China still get rewarded for having a male baby and fined for not having an abortion for a girl baby?


I will continue my questions later tonight, time for bed.

A pleasure type talking with you as always.

JonR

Well Jon,
Before I get into this, I would just like to point out that as expected, you are doing exactly what I wish you would not, and try to compare China with the United States based upon a set of superficial "American" standards for what quality of life is supposed to be.

Please realize that "your" views of freedom, and "value of life" are quite different than that of other countries. Again......the rest of the world does not necessarily consider the USA to be the equivalent of the word "freedom." But since you asked some questions, I guess I'll answer them.

Most of your questions are irrelevant, and the answers will be just as irrelevant. Please next time, put some thought into your questions instead of trying to simply compare China to the USA in some sort of arrogant "we are better than them" format. Please give me some room to articulate next time with questions such as "growth of GNP" "per capita homeless rates" or "average yield per man hour of labor stats." You know, something that might be interesting......

on to your questions:

1.Are there more millionaires in China than America?

Well, it depends, what are we talking about here? Yen, Dollars, Rubles, Won, Pounds, or what?

There are currently around 2.7 million US Dollar millionaires in the United States. That’s a 13.5 % raise since last year. There are currently 1.8 USD millionaires in China with a 12.3 percent raise since last year, compared to an 11.9 percent raise in the US 5 years ago, and a 4.7 percent raise in China 5 years ago, that means that they are rapidly catching up. (Those facts are from Morgan Stanley, you could've researched that yourself.)

That means that China will have us beat in less than 10 years. Oh, and also please keep in mind that dollar for dollar you only need to earn 40K in China to have the same standard of living as someone in the US earning 100K. What does that mean? That means that someone in China with 400K is equal to a US millionaire (even though we’re not counting them).

One other thing, 1 out of 4 millionaires in silicon valley (where most of America's millionaires are) is Chinese-american. So if you take out all of the Chinese Americans that are millionaires, the numbers will almost match up equal. those numbers come from the US census.

Oh, that reminds me.....silicon valley has seen a HUGE increase in the amount of chinese-american residents returning to China to earn their keep in that country....this due to the economic boom that is occuring there. We're losing our best electronic engineers Jon....they used to work for us, now they're going home to work against us. Does that make you nervous? It does me.

2.China is ranked third in natural resources under the middle east and Africa. They have us beat, and we by the way, use 1/3 of the worlds natural resources.

3.China does not have any dictators…..you’re still in 1950. China uses a Peoples Party-led system to support their 1982 constitution. This system is comprised of 3000 members that are elected for 5 year terms. Their Presidents name is Mr. Hu Jintao.

4.Their elected officials have town hall meetings, yes, and can be impeached by a common majority vote Can't really expect to be re-elected if you're not out there talking to your people now, can you?

5.It depends on the freedom. Can they travel freely out of the country, yes. Can they buy and sell freely thereby taking full advantage of capitalism, sure.

Can they wear a swastika on their t-shirt thereby excersing their 1st amendment rights like we can in America? No, but then again neither can the Germans.

6.Most of the rice grown in china is sold to the USA by the farmers.

7.People are still dying of hunger in china unfortunately. Thankfully per capita the levels of hungry people are going down by an average of 9 percent per year (while in the us it is going up by 1.2 percent)

8.the chinese Gov has NEVER fined parents for having a female or not getting an abortion!!!! ANOTHER IGNORANT AMERICAN BELIEF. There is a one child limit in the most overpopulated and "poor" regions, and this is to keep the population down. These regions are generally your "welfare" areas....in other words the inner city. Unlike us in America, we pay welfare mothers based upon the number of crack puppys that can squeeze out.........oh and by the way, it is against the law, and punishible by prison to have an ultrasound during pregnancy in China to determine the sex of the child. If an ultrasound is required for medical reasons, the doctor is not allowed to tell the parents the sex of the child.....this is to stop parents from aborting healthy babies in favor of males. Again, this is only necessary in urban "poor" areas. Imagine if we could just do something similar. That would solve your welfare problem now wouldn't it?

Regardless of what I just put on this post, you are still so set in your ways, you will just likely come up with something else to try to use to say how great we are and how the rest of the world sucks. If we're both around in 20 years, I hope we can get together and discuss our bosses. I hope you can pronounce your bosses name. I know I'll be able to.

Have a great day

While I do not normally agree with adroomi's politial views, and I especially don't perceive the relevance of the economic growth or growth patterns of China [adroomi & I agree] being relevant to the freedom Americans are supposed to enjoy (particularly the "RIGHT" of private ownership of guns], I am compelled by reason to agree with adroomi's statement

"trying] to compare China with the United States based upon a set of superficial "American" standards for what quality of life is supposed to be[, is irrelevant.] Please realize that 'your' views of freedom, and 'value of life' are quite different than that of other countries."

I believe it would be more conducive to healthy discussion on this subject if adroomi would stop with his condescention towards others "thoughts and questions," and, likewise, others would stop slamming adroomi personally. Were we all not to have differing opinions on salient topics, we would have no discussion on such matters and none of us would grow in knowledge or wisdom by hearing and sharing our own knowledge and experiences with each other. I grow from hearing dissenting views, both in strength (because I find support for my position) and by change (because I am pursuaded by reason, logic, and common-sense of someone elses superior knowledge or experience of a particular subject). This is another great freedom we all enjoy which is ultimately protected by our "RIGHT" to ownership and possession of guns.

adroomi stated he was "not" afraid of his government. I question, "Why"? Why, adroomi, are you NOT afraid of your government?

good points sage,
I do fear the govt, and I don't.

I fear them in the sense that if kept unchecked, they will gradually (as I feel they are currently doing) screw it all up and allow us to backslide (as I feel we are). This is why I question them, question them, question them. I question every little thing our govt does, and I keep on them about it. I post my little "liberal" messages in the hopes that others will do the same. I'm not a liberal but somehow I get called that.

I don't fear them in the sense that I believe they will start shooting at me anytime in the future. I don't fear them in a way that I need to protect myself from them with a handgun. They are much too powerful for that.

While we sit and discuss how our 30/30's will protect us from tyranny, they are pulling the carpet out from under us in much more subtle ways. That I fear. Where were all the gun toting patriots when the Patriot Act was signed?

Yes sage, I fear them. Moreso however, I fear the American people for not fearing them enough in the right context.

I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I think you get the drift.

All religions are required to register with government religious affairs bureaus and accept the supervision of official religious organizations. Many groups have resisted this action on the grounds of opposing state control of religion, being unwilling to limit their activities, or refusing to compromise their positions on issues which don't agree with that of the government.

Is this true?

September 3 –
170 house church Christians were arrested in Central Eastern Asia when a worship service was interrupted by the authorities. The majority were fingerprinted, fined, and released, but fourteen church leaders are still being held and could be imprisoned.

July 15, 2003 -
Pastor Gong (see June 11 , 2003 and Sept. 22nd, 2002 and Jan. 2002) was still alive but extremely frail and thin. He had been permitted to see two visitors. However during the supervised visit, he was separated from the visitors by glass. During the visit, he did not speak to the visitors. It is unclear if his not speaking was a form of protesting his treatment or from a guard's command not to speak or if physical beatings had left him unable to communicate. Since the visit, Pastor Gong was moved to Hong Shan Prison, Wu Chang District, Wuhan City, Hubei Province and was being held in solitary confinement. (China Aid Foundation)
June 15, 2003 -
A house church in Lisoning province was raided and 40 Christians were tied up and arrested. The Christians were released later the same day but were told their "illegal gathering" was prohibited. (VOM/Religion Today)
July 14 and 22, 2003 –
Five believers were detained at Jingmen City, Hubei province. They were being held at Shayand Detention Center, Hubei province. (ANS/WEA
July 13, 2003 –
A house church prayer meeting held in Xiaoshan district, Hangzhou City, Zhejiang province was raided at 4 a.m. by the PSB (Public Security Bureau). Six house church leaders were detained at the Lan Tian Hotel. (ANS/WEA)
July 7, 2003
Six house church leaders are sentenced to one and a half and two years of re-education through labor. (ANS/WEA)
June 28, 2003
Eighty believers were arrested when police raided a funeral in Hunan province. (ANS/WEA)

http://www.persecution.org/Countries/china.html 

"We need to take the initiative and go on the offensive, crack down on gangs as soon as they surface and strike the first blow. We must absolutely not permit the three vicious forces to build organizations, have ringleaders, control weapons and develop an atmosphere. We need to destroy them one by one as we discover them and absolutely not allow them to build up momentum", Zhang Xiuming, deputy secretary of the XUAR committee of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), 17 January 2004.

What's your point Mo? Are you now going to attempt to outdo me in regards to knowledge of China and their religious practices?

I will say this again......we are not talking about America, and you should refrain from acting so American and assuming that everyone wants to live just as you do.

Your cute little cut and pasted quotes attempt to draw a picture of Christian's in China being persecuted by martial law-like police with guns and billy clubs. You are painting an erroneous picture, and you know it.

Religious freedom is quite apparent and quite legal in China. So what if Churches need to be registered in order to be recognized.......is this not true in the USA too?

All religions are welcomed......Taoism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam. You can and will find them all there in China......correct right?

Why do certain people get arrested in China? Because they are Christian? No, because they are practicing the religion without registering themselves (if they are leaders) with the Government.....no different than a priest in America starting a church, taking donations and not telling Uncle Sam about it.

Why didn't you mention that the ones above who where arrested were members of anti-government coops that have attempted hostile actions in the past, including preaching violence. This is evident since you quoted the government leaders words of "cracking down on the gangs."

There are NO (I'll say that again....NO) current extremist groups of any religion in China.....unlike the rest of the world. Why, because the government puts stops in place to prevent the extremists and cult leaders from getting too whacko.

Oh, by the way, religion is taxed in China too......much like I believe it should be in America.

Quit trying to convince me and yourself that every place wants to be like America and that every place should be like America.

We are a 200 year old country........pity us if we screw with one that has a 15,000 year written history (oops....that's even longer than your Bible says man has been around.....explain that?).