Just exactly who are the Feds protecting?

^1

Me, you, LPR's, and anybody else that believes in the 4th Amendment.

^ nothing unreasonable about taking steps to evict an invading army of illegals.

^3

Depends on the steps. Devil is in the details, as always.

viva AZ !!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty accurate cartoon.........

So Chilly, what's your plan???? I'm guessing you don't like AZ's plan and the U.S. Government doesn't have a plan. Just curious on what you think AZ and the rest of the Nation should be doing to correct this illegal alien problem.

^7

Increase global annual limit, eliminate family reunification provisions, eliminate country limits, somewhat amnesty (still need to qualify, but waive annual limit on 1st year and allow to file out of time), codify precise list of "aggravated felony," restore funding to field worksite enforcement, and eliminate provision of SS# as form of identification for licensing and work eligibility . . . as a start.

^7

P.S. - Arizona's "plan" isn't a plan. It doesn't actually address any of the problems with immigration, it just makes people feel good - kinda like IRCA in 86'.

^ So, akin to just opening the borders and letting anyone and everyone in?

What we are doing isn't working. I support AZ's law because sometimes doing something is better than doing nothing. The illegal alien problem is costing AZ hundreds and hundreds of millions each year in medical, prison, police, etc, etc, etc. While their laws may not be the best, ya gotta start somewhere.

The outrage of what we are doing to the Mexicans is all over the news. But, the news never reports what happens when an American is in Mexico illegally and what Mexico does to them while imprisoned. As an example, we had a Marine who drove across the border and forgot he had a weapon in the trunk. They imprisoned him and it took State Department and nearly Whitehouse involvement to get him back (you'd have to read the whole story to understand). Point being, no one seems to care what happens to Americans. Our country is so sensitive with regards to hurting a non-whites feelings (other than the Jews) that we've lost perspective and rally the "outrage" at the drop of a hat.

No easy answers. Still, AZ is making an attempt and it's making the news. Maybe something positive will come of this.

bravo

^10

Um, no. What part of "limit" is baffling you?

You support AZ's law, but I doubt you have a clue how it works. It doesn't "do" anything new, unless it is read as a broad expansion of powers (which even the drafter didn't intend). It is just a cry for help, done in a manner that actually gathers attention. But it doesn't actually "do" much of anything.

Got a cite for the costs? And is that gross or net? If you tighten up your State assistance programs, you can pretty surely get a net benefit to having them.

I don't care what people are doing to Mexicans (I mean on a human level I care, but protecting Mexicans isn't my concern here). I care about the 4th Amendment and limited government. This law offends both, as well as common sense (i.e. - the impossibility of forming a reasonable suspicion someone is here illegally other than in manners already provided for or the fact that "deportable offense" is an amorphous term depending on the specific facts of each case).

The LAW AZ wrote is a hot piece of garbage. That is not a reflection on their intent, concerns, goals, morals, problems, etc. It is simply a reflection on the law as-written.

People need to begin seperating the intent of a piece of legislation from the terms of a piece of legislation. The two are rarely aligned.

Seal the boarder, fences, guard towers and roving patrols.

Turn over an Army Division or two to ICE/Boarder Patrol to enforce.

Instant end to Drug trade, arms traffic and trespassing.

What Congressman could say no to that based upon the end of drug trafficking alone? Think of the lives saved and the cost of that war, it would be a win for all.

Then we could have a meaningful dialogue about how to integrate those that are here into legal citizens.

Its not rocket science its crowd control.

#10 - Chiefburg - yup!

We gotta be pragmatic on this point; can't save the patient if we don't stop the profuse bleeding. These protesters/defenders spend so much time on this AZ thing. How about work to fix the system and ensure these foreign persons can become legal, have citizen/green card protections, make minimum wage, have legit driver's licenses, learn English (for opportunity's sake), open bank accounts, etc etc etc. I'm from PHX and live in LA: what happens to illegals is they wind up being third class residents and exploited. Why is THIS not the crime here for these protesters? Fight to make them legal, tax paying CITIZENS with real opportunities to contribute to America; not 3rd class residents forced to live off the grid.

Not sure what you think, but I apply this 'start somewhere' logic on healthcare reform. In no way perfect, but I've got nightmare insurance stories re: my folks. Disgusting what policies an insurance administrator can enforce in the name of an additional million buck bonus to to a CEO.

-N

^14

Cause every time you try to do something that will help address the issue it is labeled as "pandering to illegals" and gets shot down. Nevermind that it can easily be a win-win where we expand not only our revenue stream but also allow them to step out of the shadows.

People are more concerned with blanket emotional responses. And these cartoons are a perfect example (as are the protesters screaming "racist!" everytime you try to address the flipside of the coin).

The problem isn't just the system, it's the ignorant but vocal public as well. Hate the system we have now? Thank yourselves from 24 years ago.

Amnesty now!

^ HD - That's exactly what many look for and want.

Chilly: Yes, I have the references but I don't feel like looking them up and posting them. They were in the Ventura County Star about 7-14 days ago.

If the AZ law didn't do anything, then what's the uproar about??? Of course it does something - it allows peace officers to ask for proof of citizenship if there is probably cause. Is it insulting to some? Yes, but it shouldn't be too insulting to those here illegally. I get the same sort of treatment at the airport EVERY time I fly. I'm as white as can be and wear a U.S. Navy uniform and I still have to follow the rules. In fact, I've been pulled aside for "special screening" while in my military uniform. Insulting? Maybe. But, it's a rule and I live by just like everyone else. AZ plans of taking the illegal immigration problem into their own hands and trying to so something to stop illegals and drug trafficers from crossing the border. For that, I applaude them. Is it the best way? Don't know since we don't have anything to compare it to.

Still, good for AZ for doing something rather than doing what the other States and U.S. government is doing: Nothing.

^17

Because the one thing it can be read to do is allow unreasonable stops, which is unconstituional. However, you can avoid this by simply reading it narrowly to avoid the constituional violation, but if you do that then the law is useless because it doesn't change the current state of the law. The uproar is largely from idiots.

"Of course it does something - it allows peace officers to ask for proof of citizenship if there is probably cause."

Gee, really? That's funny, cause they could already do this BEFORE the AZ law. Tell me again exactly what it is the AZ law does that you think is helpful . . .

And while you're at it, tell me how someone forms a "reasonable suspicion" that someone has violated immigration laws other than 1) watching someone enter without inspection (which you could already arrest for) or 2) someone waving around an unstamped fopreign passport (which you could probably arrest for, but I've never heard of anyone actually being this dumb).

I agree with Chilly, the best option is to do nothing and surrender.

^19

Actually outlined a number of changes to address the immigration issue, so no, you don't agree with me.