http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453572.990277778.html 

China's new destroyers feature Aegis tech copied from U.S.

Thursday, July 21, 2005

China's military put its new guided missile destroyers on display last week, disclosing its two new warships that are equipped with Aegis-type battle management systems.

Two new Luyang II guided missile destroyers are part of China's naval builduup.

The two Luyang II guided missile destroyers are Beijing's first Aegis-type ships. The ships are currently undergoing sea trials.

U.S. intelligence officials say China stole the technology for the Aegis battle management system by setting up a front company in the United States that became a subcontractor for the Aegis system manufacturer.

The Chinese also showed two other new guided missile destroyers, known as Luyang I.

Both types of destroyers are equipped with Russian military equipment and weapons, including missiles, as well as indigenous Chinese anti-ship missiles.

The four warships are part of China's military buildup that U.S. officials say is designed for more than just a Taiwan conflict. The Chinese are building a deep-water navy able to project power, especially against the United States.

First they steal our software, music and movies, then our military secrets. Bastards. Leave poor George Lucas alone…actually, that is pretty F’ked Up.

.....that kind of sucks.

First a group of Chinese set up a registered company in the United States.

Then they subcontract for the manufacturer of a major US weapons system and are given access to not only the system and it's plans, but were actually allowed to BUILD it (good practice I suppose).

Then they take the secrets back to China and build their own.

All of this right under our noses and we didn't even catch them........

Gee, whatever happened to INVESTIGATING the people that are working on our secret stuff?

They also are building our Bradley Fighting Vehicles for us at this very moment....of course I mentioned that in a couple threads 6 months ago.

I wonder if the US Government realizes that they will probably start building a few for themselves also.

Damn slick bastards.....it's almost like we ALLOW them to get away with it......

How? It is because we have become complacent to some degree I suppose.

If we investigate, we could be deemed racists. Sorta like "profiling"

Kudos the the Chinese for doing it, and shame on us for allowing it to happen.

Maybe in a way it is a good think. This will spur us on to build a bigger, better mouse trap.

I wonder if this "front company" was one of James Riady's/Lipo Group's.

There were some shady dealings going on with China during that Clinton/Gore administration.

Adroomi,

Where do the Chinese build the Bradley Fighting Vehicle at? What is the name of the company that builds it?

On an unrelated note, have you seen the new video game called "Battlefield 2"? It has China versus USA scenarios. The wierdest thing is if you play as the Chinese team, the default character name is "Adroomi."

...Just kidding!

You think this is bad?

How about the thousands of foreign nationals we educate in OUR colleges!

We allow these people to come and be educated by the finest system in the world, and then they go back and use that knowledge against us, either in the business or military arena.

Why should we allow people who hold no allegiance to the USA to get degrees that should be reserved for AMERICAN CITIZENS!

It's just like the era before WWII. Many of the Japanese military commanders were trained in US colleges. Is there any correlation to what is happening today? What country do you think most of the foreign students come from? Could it be China? HMMMM? For example, USC (my alma mater), has the largest population of foreign students in the US. Guess what nationality the vast majority of them are?

We are educating our own enemy. How stupid is that?

Yeah... but their women are hot.

And in the north, very tall. Me likes!!!

I like tall women as well!

Charlie

I like tall women as well!

Charlie

HockeyDad,

Please see my thread I posted about it. It's built in England by an English company that was recently bought by the Chinese.

JC,

Finest education system in the world? Really, says who? By the way, how many of us are being taught in foreign universities? Care to take a guess at which country has the most?

Adroomi,

Can you direct me to this thread about the Bradley Fighting Vehicle that you speak of? You've made mention of the Chinese acquiring the Bradley on a number of occasions and I've always viewed this as one of the many fabrications that you make up to prove some point or push some specific opinion. I would like to see you substantiate the claim.

You have modified your claim that "the Chinese are building our Bradley Fighting vehicle" to state that it is built in England....Where specifically?

...By an English company recently bought by the Chinese....Who specifically?

I know, England/China, its all just details. England and China are pretty much the exact same thing, right? Why get lost in the details when it is the grander story we're after! You claim to know these facts and you have me curious now. Let me help you just a bit with your story.

The Bradley Fighting Vehicle is manufactured in the United States by United Defense Industries. This company is publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange. It was recently acquired by BAE Systems, headquartered in the United Kingdom. The acquisition just cleared the last approval hurdles in June 2005.

BAE Systems (or British Aerospace) is also publicly traded on the London Stock Exchange and is a very large aerospace and defense company. Their stock symbol is "BA" in case you're interested in becoming an owner of the company. Now keep in mind that BAE is not just some English company. They're a huge company that even owns 20% of Airbus. I trust you're familiar with Airbus and its two parent corporations.

OK Adroomi, according to your claim now that I have filled in some missing pieces for you, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle is manufactured in England by BAE Systems plc, and BAE Systems plc is owned by the Chinese.

Would you care to revise your statement?

http://www.uniteddefense.com/ 

http://www.baesystems.com/ 

HockeyDad,

United Defense was owned by the Carlyle Group who in their own have a fairly lucrative history.

Now BAE own the Bradley (a non-US company located off American soil). The EU is in the process of lifting the ban on weapons sales to China. BAE will then have the authority to sell the Bradley to China.

BAE trains Chinese pilots. They train Chinese engineers. They build airplanes and military equipment in China. China holds a great deal of stock in BAE.

This is how the Carlyle Group and other big US Government sponsored organizations moves our secrets and our money overseas to benefit themselves without the public knowing.

That pretty much takes us back to the topic of this thread.....Chinese Thieves and how they stole our technology "right out from under us." No, they were sold our technology by our own people right in front of us.....we're just to stupid to figure it out.

Adroomi Wrote

"This is how the Carlyle Group and other big US Government sponsored organizations moves our secrets and our money overseas to benefit themselves without the public knowing."

Even when this is public knowledge, it seems that the "public' has very little that they can do about it.

Remember all of the scandals involving Slick Willie's administration and John Huang, the Lipo Group, Costco, and Jim Riady ????

My recollection was that it was pretty well documented that sensitive technology was being exchanged with the paid endorsement from the highest levels of govt.

Now....to me, this was much more serious than "Whitewatergate" and/or the Lewinsky Scandal.

GOP vs DEM aside, that issue should have taken priority at that time.

Now its too late.

Adroomi,

United Defense is publicly traded on the NYSE under the symbol "UDI". Carlyle Group took it public a few years ago and cashed out a while back. United Defense's many shareholders voted to sell it to BAE Systems plc.

So when you said "They also are building our Bradley Fighting Vehicles for us at this very moment" and "they" being China, you were making this up. You do have an interesting theory about how the Bradley could fall into Chinese hands one day but none of this has happened.

As to your theory, you do realize that the EU lifting the ban on arms sales to China does not apply to US subsidiaries of European firms? The subsidiary will still have to go through normal US government approvals and potentially make the requisite campaign contributions just as what Andytv is referring to like what happened in the 1990s. The way around this would be for BAE Systems to build a new manufacturing facility outside of the US but the repercussions could be quite bad. BAE Systems is now the fifth largest US defense contractor so they would need to be careful. They wouldn't want to invite the problems that the Israelis are having with the US over arms sales to China. Personally, I think if China wants the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, they could "lift" one from the Saudis fairly easily and just disassemble and copy it.

As for your claim that "China holds a great deal of stock in BAE", how much stock does the Peoples Republic of China hold in BAE Systems plc? Are you making this up as well? It is all public records....

Institutions:

BRANDES INVESTMENT PARTNERS, L.P. 6.86%

State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio 0.18%

BNY Asset Management 0.05%

INVESCO Capital Management Inc. 0.04%Wentworth, Hauser & Violich, Inc. 0.02% Federated Investors, Inc. 0.02%

Mutual Funds

Nations International Value Fund 0.56%

Maxim Series Fund - INVESCO ADR Portfolio 0.04%

Federated Muni and Stock Advantage Fund 0.01%

Federated Capital Income Fund Inc 0.01%

BNY Hamilton International Equity Fund 0.01%

If you ask me, it looks like the State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio might be making a run at acquiring the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

Adroomi, have you noticed yet that you are arguing that China is bad?!

(Disclaimer: I own stock in BAE Systems plc but am not trying to acquire the Bradley Fighting Vehicle)

To jcwbnimble,

If they are not educated in American coleges, they will go elsewhere, such as Europe or Asia.

I wonder how many Chinese military are already liasoned to West Point, Annapolis, Colorado Springs?

If they don't go there they could just as easily make deals with the British (Sandhurst); French (Écoles militaires de Saint-Cyr Coëtquidan); Austria (Theresianischen Militärakademie)...the list could go on and on).

They have the money...American dollars and are allowing their currency to float against the dollar for the first time, in order to create more buying power for the yuan versus the dollar (and presumably other currencies that tie to the dollar). They are justified in going on a buying spree and will snap up raw materials in the developing world. Leaving America in the dust. China is experiencing the equivalent of the Industrial Revolution in the 21st Century.

In short, the mantra of "Lower Prices, Always" will be the coup de grace for the American economy and strategic interests, as shareholders in American companies are looking for higher returns, will cut off their noses to spite themselves. As will consumers that are voting their dollars at Wal-Mart.

The internationalists and those that are looking to move capital around at a moments notice in order to increase returns have no vested interest in America or its people, excepting as raw material for what employment remains (service economy) and as beat cops to smack down the second and third world, when they decide to get uppity (Venezuela is on the agenda for rebuke soon).

Folks, the chickens are coming home to roost.

Those crafty yellow devils! I can make fun of my own because I am part asian...but my blood is red, white and blue. Seriously, as a military man, I think that China is the sleeping giant that we will face off with in a future cold war over Taiwan and North Korea if we survive long enough and persevere through the Global War On Terror with which we are presently engaged. I have heard that the Chinese have constructed military port facilities at the Panama Canal which we so willingly gave back to a corrupt and incompetent host nation.