1. If many of the "important" folks in the Christian faith, and many of the events took place in places like Iran and Iraq, why are they not Christian there, but rather Islamic? I think it's because when those guys sat and created the new cult called Christianity, they needed to base it in a far away place that nobody knew much about so that it would be harder to disprove.

2. If God created all men, and babies go to heaven, even before they are old enough to make a choice, what about Pygmie Headhunters in New Guinea? They commit murder and do not worship the Christian god. It's not their fault, it's just that most missionaries tend to not get the word out over there, they usually end up in a stew pot with a bunch of carrots and potatoes. Will they go to heaven even though they don't accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour? I mean, they've never heard of him, so can they plead ignorant when they are asked, "why?"

3. Most Christians are white and European. Is God racist?

I look forward to the input......

I'll give you this, adroomi.

You did warn people coming in.

Its too late in the evening to give your thread the contemplation it needs. Hoping in vain this one doesn't go downhill fast.

I think someone will start with the "cult of christianity" line.

Good luck though, I'll check this one in the morning.

I don't mean to give anyone an aneurism, but Judeism, Christianity, amd Islam are three aspects of a middle eastern-European religio/temporal continuum, so saying they were Christian here or Muslem there is in a way refering to already integrated historical and cultural events. Family fueds are generally the worst ones, and the Judeo/Christian/Islamic one is a case in point.

can we just pass the offering plate and move on?

i am surprised. i thought you knew more about religion as you talk about it with "relative" frequency.

1. to go with Dr. Pep, the old testament in the Christian faith is the Torah in the Jewish faith...and it is also part of the Muslim faith. Islam also considers Jesus a prophet, so it would seem that that is proof enough.

2. "created" equal. you and i are not the same, as Australians are different from New Zealanders and Argentines and Tanzanians. we all make choices--to kill, to covet, to what have you. that is "free will", which as i said i another post is the greatest/worst gift granted to man.

it is not for me to say if they will go to heaven or not. i will say that the Bible says that Jesus will not return till every man has had the chance to hear of Christ. so, it seems we all have a bit more time to figure these things out for ourselves.

3. and this is the most absurd, really? what makes you think most Christians are white? have you heard of Catholics? and as the world traveler you are, i would assume that you know that central and south america is over 90% Catholic--and correct me if i am wrong, they are hispanic, which is a different box in the race section of my job application.

also, you cannot really count many europeans. most french are "catholic" and atheists. notice where i put the quotes...catholic by birth, atheist by belief.

and the underground churches in China--that is a huge chunk of population...South Korea...i have missionary friends throughout Africa. i gotta disagree on the white Christian thing.

these are my thoughts and in no way should they be misconstrued as a biblical scholar responding to your questions. i hope this helps.

But take your laurel just the same. Well said!

doc, from everything i have read you type, i had the feeling you are agnostic...perhaps a deist, was i mistaken?

"3. Most Christians are white and European. Is God racist?"

Yer f*cked up and again don't have a clue of what your talking about... get your facts straight before you open up your Theology threads...

here's a hint, check out the Cross and the Crusaides post a week or so back.. then check local listings on the history channel when it will air in your neck of the woods.. you may learn a bit about the whole world going on around you...

As 8track said above.. it's late and I do hope this thread remains open... but for some damn reason I feel the input will fall upon deaf ears?

Hog

An Adroomi classic! The old play ignorant, stir the pot hard, and attack all dissenters ploy.

I'd give this one a 6.8! Explosive topic, but lacks imagination.

All those phone numbers and no one to talk to?

Being a stranger in a strange land is a bitch!

adroomi,

do you really want these answered? if so i will reply, but i am not going to get in a drawn out argument with you about my reply......

Gerilynn

Burg, my personal religious history is: raised baptist (howling at the moon crazy Baptist) and was well indoctrinated and learned to respect honesty, and store my treasures not on earth. I sought to be near my maker all my days, but like the man from La Mancha, became infected with philosophy. Philosophy brought me under the sway of science, which transformed my theism into atheism as naturally as the rain falls on springtime pastures. Now that Baptist training has led me to anthropology, and interest in my own kind, for their betterment, enrichment, and providence. Yourself?

always had the scientific mind...2 questions my mom remembers from my toddler era are 1) how many calories in a mouse? in my defense, not if you EAT the mouse, but the amount of potential energy it had. 2) how much does the moon weight? because everyone is lighter on the moon, i thought it may have weighed less than it should.

i will trade my honesty for yours. my parents were "Christian". they got divorced. my mom worked 2 jobs usually. my sisters and i did not get the attention that kids need. the older turned to sex as her rebellion, the younger drugs. i am the crying middle child (other post), i went the smarter route. as they failed 6th and 9th grades and eventually dropped out of high school. i tried to get attention by getting straight A's...i got the A's, not the attention...16. worked 32 hours a week to help support the family. started going to church alone. we were all searching for love. my sisters seemed to be failing. i tried this route.

i liked it. in fact, i ended up going to an elite christian college. best 4 years of my life. went to grad school at Florida State. hated the politics, loved teaching. became a missionary. i was a missionary, but not in the way that people immediately think, which is why i left it open, so you would get an image. i taught chemistry and physics at an international school in Germany...i loved it, but there were problems. i came back before i was supposed to. this is the turning point.

i taught high school chem, physics, and calculus in dallas. hated it. went to my church from high school, but it was not working. i fled the country to japan--still here.

i guess this is the bottom line if i search deeply enough. I KNOW CHRISTIANITY IS RIGHT, BUT IT DOES NOT WORK FOR ME! sad. it makes me sad. i hope i turn around. and take it from me, i do not deserve those laurels.

That was a fascinating life history Burg. Thanks for taking the time to share. You seem to have that sense of conflict that motivated you, for maybe not the right reasons, yet lifting you to higher heights. I wish I would have had that constructive fuel of doubt when I was younger. I don't know that Christianity is right or wrong necessarily, but there are many ways for a person to fill their soul. May you find the means that suits you soon, and many for that matter; spiritualisms have been like foods to me, I want to taste everything on the menu. And, not knowing you well, but you do deserve your laurels, they're yours afterall; that's one thing that kind of sets me away about Judeic monotheism, the punitive guilt aspect. Claim your laurels man, if they have your name on them, and wear them on trips to the market, or daily to work. What is a person but their history, and your story sounds exceptional.

thank you, but there are days that i wish i had a boring life with the "perfect" family that you knew when you went to church.

so, in that tone, i chose a verse to live with (during college). Romans 5:3-5 "therefore, brothers, rejoice in your suffering. suffering produces perseverence; perseverence, character; and character, hope. and hope does not disappoint."

i am working on the perseverence and character still (as i am a mere 30). i hope to get the hope.

but thanks for your encouragement. i doubt this is what adroomi planned on. do you reckon he will come back soon?...in japan, it is 4:35pm here, so he must be around here somewhere.

"the punitive guilt aspect"

i hear you. i told my friends in college, people come to Christ in fear. they stay for the love. i was young then. i may have been wrong, but it was my story, and every "child's" story. adults are different. i think most come for the forgiveness.

you can say that it is guilt (and that is the going stereotype of baptists in the communities i was in). or you can see the forgiveness. show me a story in which Jesus shows punitive guilt. he just had forgiveness.

it is the modern-day pharisees that mutate the Bible into things that aren't there, just like in Jesus's time. they forced "rules" that never existed. Christ would hate alot about the church today, i believe. but i am sure he would find love and goodness in every church as well.

Mrs18,

Yes, in fact I was hoping to get some input from folks as to what they feel about those questions. I do appreciate you stopping by. You and your husband are a couple of cool cats that I'm always glad to see in a thread.

Those three questions were addressed to me earlier by someone else, and I didn't quite have an answer for the person asking them. They sort of took me by surprise and made me sit down and think about them for awhile. I figured I'd get a common view and see what I can strain out of all the different opinion. I warned all in advance of what I was doing....thus the title "questions, enter at own risk." If you'd be willing to give me your honest, thought on those, I'd love to hear it.

I do appreciate DrPepperhills and Burgess's great dialogue as well. I'm taking notes, that's for sure.

Hog, You're an a*shole lately, and I don't know why.

Rug, the only one attacking anyone on this thread until you came along was Hog, and now you come onto my thread where I ask questions and accuse me of attacking people? Please take your mentally challenged self, and go f*ck off.

Well, there's the money changers, Jesus was definitely off on a punitive jag that particular day. Guilt can be attributed to the doubt expressed in "oh father! why hast thou foresaken me!?" at the crucifiction. So there's some punitive guilt, in example. But of course there was a lot of forgiving happening too.

One modern day science-pharisee (anthropologist) whose Jesus story I liked is Marvin Harris'. In his resurection of Jesus, he conjures up a man, nay, an insurgent against Roman hegemony; a one like many of that time. Not a pacifist, but a violent rebel against the occupying Roman forces. Basically Harris said Jesus was a militant charismatic rather than a passive bleeding heart. Lots of competing theosophy out there still, in an open field.

You Almost Got me Droomi, Almost...

by the way, its up to us to spread the word my Brother

so to me we are at falt, all of us...

in the bible it does say

god will judge each unto his own

i feel that religion is a downfall of prideful men

faith however..

Look, I been spreading word like a mofo on this post tonight, don't be punitive guilt tripping me.