ducati996
Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:24:41 PM
Government Motors has stooped to a new low. Their new TV commercial depicting their failure in the same light as the challenges faced by the US space program is enough to make one sick. GM's failure was due to complete and utter incompetence of its management, not by an attempt to overcome untried technical challenges as in the case of the space program. The topper is the statement at the end of the commercial that says "We all fall down". Speak for yourself, GM. Don't blame your implosion on the illusion that "we all fall down". What a pathetic excuse. That's my opinion......and it ought to be yours.
wheelrite
Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:35:10 PM
The Unions ruined GM
rfenst
Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:49:26 PM
No matter what the cause of GM's problems, the GM bailout- like it or hate it- seems to be working whether or not their good-will advertising may be bull****.
ZRX1200
Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:54:13 PM
^ Ford is still kicking their azz. Had the feds not attacked Toyota with bs claims to protect their takeover their market share would have been really phuked.
rfenst
Sunday, November 28, 2010 7:37:40 PM

^ Ford is still kicking their azz. Had the feds not attacked Toyota with bs claims to protect their takeover their market share would have been really phuked.

ZRX1200 wrote:

Ford has been doing itself good on its own.

Toyota has screwed itself. The acceleration problem has been known for years. So too were the brake problems. Toyota should have taken care of its own problem so that the government didn't have to step in. It has some business problems too.

http://www.economist.com/node/15064411 

donutboy2000
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:02:15 PM
$33.61
ZRX1200
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:18:55 PM
^ how is it the acceleration cannot be duplicated in testing?

Rubbish, that's what I say.

wheelrite
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:25:00 PM

^ how is it the acceleration cannot be duplicated in testing?

Rubbish, that's what I say.

ZRX1200 wrote:

It is rubbish..

MACS
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:42:50 PM
I give major props to Ford for not taking bailout money. I'd buy a Ford before I'd buy a Chevy now and that was not always the case.

Still... Toyota is better than both of them, IMO.

donutboy2000
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:46:05 PM
Study: Driver Error in Most Toyota Crashes

U.S. auto regulators find that more than half of the Toyota accidents blamed on unintended acceleration were caused by driver error.

By the editors of AutoWeek

Toyota has recalled more than 8 million vehicles worldwide in the past year, including the Camry, for defects such as pedals that stuck or snagged on floor mats.

Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S. auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency said today in a report to lawmakers.

The preliminary findings bolster Toyota's contentions that there's no evidence of flaws in electronic controls on its vehicles and that motorists in some cases confused the accelerator and brake pedals.

Toyota, the world's largest automaker, has recalled more than 8 million vehicles worldwide in the past year for defects such as pedals that stuck or snagged on floor mats.

“At this early point in its investigation, NHTSA officials have drawn no conclusions about additional causes of unintended acceleration in Toyotas beyond the two defects already known — pedal entrapment and sticking gas pedals,” the agency said in the report provided for a briefing to lawmakers in Washington.

In addition to the 60 percent of cases where brakes weren't used, NHTSA cited accidents in which the brakes were applied partially or the data recorder failed.

Toyota has conducted more than 4,000 on-site vehicle inspections, and said today it has not found electronic throttle controls to be a cause of unintended acceleration.

"Toyota's own vehicle evaluations have confirmed that the remedies it developed for sticking accelerator pedal and potential accelerator pedal entrapment by an unsecured or incompatible floor mat are effective," the company said. "We have also confirmed several different causes for unintended acceleration reports, including pedal entrapment by floor mats, pedal misapplication and vehicle functions where a slight increase in engine speed is normal, such as engine idle up from a cold start or air conditioning loads."

In all of the cases studied by federal regulators, the driver made an allegation of unintended acceleration.

Of the 58 recording devices analyzed, 35 showed that at the moment of the crash impact, the driver hadn't depressed the brake pedal at all, safety officials said. Fourteen more cases showed partial braking. In another nine cases, the brake had been depressed at the "last second" before impact.

The government's preliminary examination also said there were a handful of other crashes where the brake was pressed early and released, or in which the brake and gas pedals were pressed at the same time. There was one case of pedal entrapment by a floor mat.

autoweek

wheelrite
Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:48:04 PM

I give major props to Ford for not taking bailout money. I'd buy a Ford before I'd buy a Chevy now and that was not always the case.

Still... Toyota is better than both of them, IMO.

MACS wrote:

You're a Nissan Motor Co. dude,right ?

ZRX1200
Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:10:37 PM
^ infinity G41 I believe.
MACS
Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:10:40 PM

You're a Nissan Motor Co. dude,right ?

wheelrite wrote:

Yessir, so far I've had very good luck with Nissan built cars & trucks. I'd buy more of 'em with no hesitation.

MACS
Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:12:11 PM

^ infinity G41 I believe.

ZRX1200 wrote:

They make speakers. I believe you may be referring to the Nissan flagship line... Infiniti.

Some damn fine cars... damn fine.

ZRX1200
Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:22:40 PM
I'd like to buy a vowell....
jpotts
Monday, November 29, 2010 1:19:45 AM

^ how is it the acceleration cannot be duplicated in testing?

Rubbish, that's what I say.

ZRX1200 wrote:

Real simple. Maybe it did show up, and maybe no one did anything about it.

Or maybe it showed up, and they "fixed" something that wasn't the cause of the problem.

Really guys, do you honestly think that maybe 100 test cars being driven over the course of a year is going to repeat the problem with the same frequency that one-hundred-thousand cars will do? If the problem is sporadic, and difficult to isolate, the odds of it being found during development and properly fixed are pretty low.

I think there are a lot of people here who can't bring themselves to admit that Toyota can actually screw up.

ZRX1200
Monday, November 29, 2010 1:29:52 AM
Oh I think they can.

I think the govt overreacted without evidence in this instance though.

jpotts
Monday, November 29, 2010 1:36:33 AM

Government Motors has stooped to a new low. Their new TV commercial depicting their failure in the same light as the challenges faced by the US space program is enough to make one sick. GM's failure was due to complete and utter incompetence of its management, not by an attempt to overcome untried technical challenges as in the case of the space program. The topper is the statement at the end of the commercial that says "We all fall down". Speak for yourself, GM. Don't blame your implosion on the illusion that "we all fall down". What a pathetic excuse. That's my opinion......and it ought to be yours.

ducati996 wrote:

First, when you've got a bunch of radical environmentalists jacking up CAFE standards on a whim, it produces a lot of "untried technical challenges." You try making a fuel-efficient car that's inexpensive and profitable for the company, and let me know how it goes. Odds are, you'll be out of business in no time flat.

Secondly, anyone who thinks the US space program isn't loaded with a bunch of do-nothings and wasteful spending, they need to have their head examined. These are the same people who made up the whole global warming scam. NASA is like any government agency: slow, inefficient, and places politics before production .

Not that GM is, by any means, guiltless of their demise. However, it doesn't help that they were pushed to the brink by nazi-esque environmentalists, and union-backed politicians.

And it certainlly doesn't help that we allow the Japanese automakers to produce cars here, when we're not allowed to either produce cars in their country nor sell them. Plus, they also manipulate their currency to keep their prices low here in the US.

The fact is, as much as I'd love to blame GM for their collapse, the reality is that a whole lot of other people helped them along the way.

ZRX1200
Monday, November 29, 2010 1:56:05 AM
^ very true.

I'd LOVE to see the mileage new cars would get if they removed the emissions crap. I also heard a radio interview with a computer guy who was selling software and system for intersection controls. The idea was to limit idle time and avoid unnecessary stops at empty intersections.

topper7788
Monday, November 29, 2010 9:51:16 AM
I thought the commercial was excellent ? But thats me....

On Ford, they have done a great job so far... But as for not taking government money, the facts are Bill Ford and the family realized to their credit that they could not turn the company around... they also decided they wanted to keep Ford... so they basically had no choice... so first they went out side the business for a new CEO, If Ford had taken the same route as GM they would have lost the company and their stock would have been worthless... Make no mistake Ford didn't take government money because it was in the FORD FAMILY's best interest not too..PERIOD.. In reality GM may be in a better position for long term growth than Ford.. they have a clean balance sheet with basically no dept... the masses will eventually stop holding the government thing against them.. A very large and growing presence in China etc.. any way you look at it whether you liked the bailout or not.. It certainly has worked.. Who knows with some continued growth we may even get all our money back...

I did just buy a new GN car too, so I guess I have put my money where my mouth is so to say.....