frankj1
  • frankj1
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a year ago
https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/elections/nominating-candidates/ 

I've been avoiding a reply to the countless times it's been posted (incorrectly) that her nomination was the "real insurrection", or "the real coup" or that the voters had been cheated somehow, etc etc.

Guess I was hoping someone here actually did understand the process for parties to nominate a candidate for election and would explain it so I could continue to avoid all the noise of misinformation...

basically, the delegates for each state decide who will represent their party as the nominee at the convention.

Her selection is in no way unconstitutional. And the rules could change (as they have before) for this type of election and others (think US Senate) and still not violate the Constitution.

Nonetheless, I don't have to vote for her or Trump. Neither do you.
Stogie1020
a year ago
Frank, help me out here. What was the point of a Democratic primary process if the delegates just vote for whoever (?whomever?...grammer fale) they want?
frankj1
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a year ago

Frank, help me out here. What was the point of a Democratic primary process if the delegates just vote for whoever (?whomever?...grammer fale) they want?

Stogie1020 wrote:


no different for the GOP.
Delegates are authorized for each state and I assume D.C.


From the link...
"Currently, candidates go through a series of state primary elections and caucuses where, based on the number of votes they receive from the electorate, they win a certain number of delegates. The delegates—people authorized to represent their state—will vote for their assigned candidate at their political party's convention."

This case is not the conventional (see what I did there?) type, but the "people" aren't voting directly for a candidate...though generally the result is the same, I assume.

Hey, how many general elections for POTUS have been won by the loser of the will of the people? It's why Trump tried to sneak in fake electors.
HockeyDad
a year ago
“The delegates—people authorized to represent their state—will vote for their assigned candidate at their political party's convention”

That didn’t happen because of the coup to oust Biden.
frankj1
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a year ago
Saw this in my beloved Boston Globe a few weeks ago, I always read Jeff Jacoby's editorials/opinion pieces.
He's an actual life long Republican...

https://jeffjacoby.com/28053/the-specious-argument-that-harris-nomination-was 
frankj1
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a year ago

“The delegates—people authorized to represent their state—will vote for their assigned candidate at their political party's convention”

That didn’t happen because of the coup to oust Biden.

HockeyDad wrote:


read the link I just posted by Jeff Jacoby.
The delegates were poised to vote for a candidate who withdrew and they were only obligated to his wishes...and he endorsed his VP.

I know what comes next...98.2% of those here know what really happened behind the scenes...sigh.

Anyyhoo, it's not even guaranteed that citizens will always have a primary election in which to vote.
It's the way it is now, and the Constitution missed this prediction of the future course of events.
MACS
a year ago
So the dems are running the least popular candidate in the primary she WAS in... and the least popular vice president EVAH.

And it's really not possible for her to go from not popular AT ALL, to as popular as the MSM wants you to believe. Especially when she can't answer a single question posed to her, coherently, and has no policies.



DrMaddVibe
a year ago
Remember that time the DNC shut down any talk of Pedo Joe facing any kind of a primary because he was sharp as a tack and fit as a fiddle?


Yeah.


I imagine Lefty stewing in their brine about all the choices they could've had and didn't about now.

So we have a blown out old whore that is doing a great Biden impersonation of being incompetent and spreading Joy while Lefty tries to talk about how it was all constitutional and above board.


Bawhahahaha. Suckers.

They'll do it again too.
jeebling
a year ago
Ok. So wave the paper around and declare that this is just swell and that the party faithful don’t need a voice in choosing the candidate. I mean, hey, lookit, says right there on the page. Nice. This is what we’ve come to.
HockeyDad
a year ago

read the link I just posted by Jeff Jacoby.
The delegates were poised to vote for a candidate who withdrew and they were only obligated to his wishes...and he endorsed his VP.

I know what comes next...98.2% of those here know what really happened behind the scenes...sigh.

Anyyhoo, it's not even guaranteed that citizens will always have a primary election in which to vote.
It's the way it is now, and the Constitution missed this prediction of the future course of events.

frankj1 wrote:



“they were only obligated to his wishes...and he endorsed his VP.“. They weren’t obligated to do that. That’s the coup.
frankj1
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a year ago

So the dems are running the least popular candidate in the primary she WAS in... and the least popular vice president EVAH.

And it's really not possible for her to go from not popular AT ALL, to as popular as the MSM wants you to believe. Especially when she can't answer a single question posed to her, coherently, and has no policies.



MACS wrote:


maybe.
but has no bearing on posts all over the place here making incorrect statements about how our system works.

This is not a thread started as a tribute to Harris, actually has only coincidental relationship to her at all...she just happens to be the one nominated in this perfectly legal and Constitutional manner...

frankj1
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a year ago

Remember that time the DNC shut down any talk of Pedo Joe facing any kind of a primary because he was sharp as a tack and fit as a fiddle?


Yeah.


I imagine Lefty stewing in their brine about all the choices they could've had and didn't about now.

So we have a blown out old whore that is doing a great Biden impersonation of being incompetent and spreading Joy while Lefty tries to talk about how it was all constitutional and above board.


Bawhahahaha. Suckers.

They'll do it again too.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


I'm sorry you still don't understand this.

frankj1
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a year ago

Ok. So wave the paper around and declare that this is just swell and that the party faithful don’t need a voice in choosing the candidate. I mean, hey, lookit, says right there on the page. Nice. This is what we’ve come to.

jeebling wrote:


if you read the links, or even what I c&p'd from them, you'd realize this has been in place for the last 50 years or so, roughly It's not "what we've come to"...

It's got nothing to do with the particular participants either, it's a lesson...like when the thug being arrested says "I know my rights" and really doesn't. Claiming her nomination is illegal or unconstitutional is to not know our own system...and it has changed before and could again, thanks to the Framers.
frankj1
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a year ago

“they were only obligated to his wishes...and he endorsed his VP.“. They weren’t obligated to do that. That’s the coup.

HockeyDad wrote:


you didn't read.
nothing I can add.
frankj1
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a year ago

try to follow this:

OF ALL the reasons to object to Kamala Harris's bid for the presidency, the most preposterous is that her nomination is an affront to democracy because she wasn't chosen by Democratic primary voters.
Coming from Donald Trump, who disparages any unwanted outcome as "rigged," the accusation that his opponent became the Democrats' standard-bearer in a "coup" is not surprising. But it astonishes me that normal Republicans trot out the charge as if it is not only self-evident but irrefutably logical.

Again and again Trump backers have made the claim that it was an attack on democracy for Harris to replace President Biden as the Democratic nominee.

House Speaker Mike Johnson, for example, indignantly declared that "the self-proclaimed 'party of democracy' has proven exactly the opposite" because it "invalidated the votes of more than 14 million Americans who selected Joe Biden to be the Democrat nominee for president." At the Texas Public Policy Foundation website, the Republican Party's former director of election integrity, Josh Findlay, wrote that Democratic leaders "effectively stole an election" by choosing to "disenfranchise millions of Democratic primary voters" who had supported Biden's renomination. JD Vance, Trump's running mate, said he was "disgusted by how anti-democratic" the elevation of Harris had been and how it ran roughshod over the principle that "if you want to run for president, you've got to make your case to voters [and] win their votes."

To be fair, Democrats who opposed Biden's replacement were pressing this case before it turned into a Republican talking point.

"The voters of the Democratic Party have voted. They have chosen me to be the nominee of the party. Do we now just say this process didn't matter? That the voters don't have a say?" Biden himself wrote in early July, when he still hoped to salvage his candidacy.

But it's a specious argument no matter who makes it.

Primary elections do not confer democratic legitimacy on a party's presidential nomination process and the absence of primary elections doesn't invalidate that legitimacy. Otherwise, no presidential nominee for most of American history — not Jefferson, not Lincoln, not Kennedy — could have been regarded as legitimate. Until 1972, political parties never relied on the outcome of primary elections to choose their nominees. Primaries weren't even invented until the early 20th century, and they were regarded largely as nonbinding "beauty contests" — a way to gauge public sentiment and generate interest but not to displace the role of party leaders in selecting a nominee.

It was only after the 1968 election, when the Democratic Party changed its rules, that primary results were made binding. But that didn't affect the democratic quality of the parties' subsequent nominees. Unlike general elections, which are true democratic public contests, a primary election is no more than a party's private, internal process. Under our system, political parties have no constitutional status and how a party chooses its nominees — through primaries, caucuses, or the consensus of party leaders — is irrelevant. Only when voters choose between nominees does democratic legitimacy come into play.

The "coup" argument fails for other reasons too.

Many observers thought it was a mistake for Democrats to nominate Harris for vice president in 2020. (Even Jill Biden was opposed.) Yet no one claimed that it was "anti-democratic" for her to become Biden's running mate — despite the fact that Democratic primary voters had no say in the choice. She became a candidate for, and was ultimately elected to, the second-highest office in the land, on the basis of one man's preference. If that didn't offend America's democratic values — and it didn't — then neither did the party's decision this year to move Harris to the top of its ticket.

That's not all.

As a matter of formal procedure, primary election voters don't elect presidential nominees. They elect delegates pledged to vote for a specific candidate at the party's convention later in the year. Only when the delegates vote does a candidate's nomination become official. But a delegate's pledge to a candidate cannot be binding if that candidate is no longer running.

By the time Democratic delegates gathered in Chicago this year, Biden had pulled out of the presidential race and endorsed Harris to take his place. His delegates — who were elected in primary elections — weren't required to support his chosen successor, though most of them did so when the roll was called. The nomination of Harris was entirely in keeping with the party's rules.

There is no shortage of serious reasons to oppose Harris's campaign for the White House. But those who deride her candidacy as anti-democratic are arguing in bad faith — and saying more about their own lack of seriousness than about her unfitness to be president.

Jeff Jacoby is a columnist for The Boston Globe.

-
DrMaddVibe
a year ago

I'm sorry you still don't understand this.

frankj1 wrote:




Understand what? That Democrat voters are dumber than bags of hammers now? Never in the history of American politics have we substituted a candidate with less than 90 days before election day. All because the Veep cannot or will not invoke the 25th Amendment! THAT is her job and she cannot even do THAT! So, now the DNC changed up their party rules to elect a candidate BEFORE a convention to slime past a couple of pesky states and their rules and because he got his ass handed to him during a debate it's "OMG, we have to do something...Put in Harris!!!!!" and because a presstitute writes an article on fish wrap you're totally cool with it. That's fine for you, but what about the people that voted and really wanted Biden? **** them, riiight? Its for the cause!

No, I completely understand the entire coup.


coup - noun
ˈkü
plural coups ˈküz

: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group : coup d'état

: a brilliant, sudden, and usually highly successful stroke or act

Are you especially happy to have Harris as the candidate of your party? You really want to install a person that nobody voted for, not a single person voted for her. to be President. Now, she will not even take an interview. If that's too hard for her to do and look competent at imagine that 3am phone call. Now that Pedo Joe has the world on fire...its coming.
drglnc
a year ago

https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/elections/nominating-candidates/

I've been avoiding a reply to the countless times it's been posted (incorrectly) that her nomination was the "real insurrection", or "the real coup" or that the voters had been cheated somehow, etc etc.

Guess I was hoping someone here actually did understand the process for parties to nominate a candidate for election and would explain it so I could continue to avoid all the noise of misinformation...

basically, the delegates for each state decide who will represent their party as the nominee at the convention.

Her selection is in no way unconstitutional. And the rules could change (as they have before) for this type of election and others (think US Senate) and still not violate the Constitution.

Nonetheless, I don't have to vote for her or Trump. Neither do you.

frankj1 wrote:




The people making those claims/statements are the same ones that defend or are at least OK with Trumps "Alternate Electors" Scam
HockeyDad
a year ago

you didn't read.
nothing I can add.

frankj1 wrote:



How were they obligated to do his wishes? When Biden pulled out they became obligated to no candidate. They got in line with the machine very quickly.

Let’s get real though, Kamala being the candidate isn’t some sort of illegal thing. It’s just that the people actually got no say in selecting her. She is a manufactured candidate. I’m looking forward to her presidency.
RayR
a year ago

How were they obligated to do his wishes? When Biden pulled out they became obligated to no candidate. They got in line with the machine very quickly.

Let’s get real though, Kamala being the candidate isn’t some sort of illegal thing. It’s just that the people actually got no say in selecting her. She is a manufactured candidate. I’m looking forward to her presidency.

HockeyDad wrote:



Do you have enough pitchforks and torches in stock for her manufactured presidency? 🤨
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