ever notice when you get in a political discussion with someone with views other than yours no one gets anywhere? I giving up on such disussions.

There are more concervatives that herf than libs. I speak for at least 2 or 3 dozen silent BOTL who cheer me on, I know that's true. But it's human nature. Some people are more prone to conflict and debate, and some are less prone to it. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. It takes all kinds, even LIBERALS! lol!

Thank you Robby... And hope you are feeling better!!

BUSH SUCKS!!!!

says so on this web site: www.IhateBush.com

and

KERRY SUCKS!!!!!

says so on this site: www.IhateKerry.com

Just remember, mean people suck. Nice people swallow.

Since I am new to the board I thought this may be a good place to make an entrance.

Responding to MAC

Start over. Take all the career politicians out. Put in everyday people. Limit to 2 terms max. It has some flaws but can it be any worse than it is now?

Yeah... and change the FACT that Senators, after serving only ONE term, get a pension of somewhere around 10-15 THOUSAND dollars a month for the rest of their lives.

I gotta give 20 years of mine, busting my ass, to earn a $2,000 a month pension... and I am the one going into harms way when THEY tell me to.

Where's the fairness in that?

I HATE POLITICIANS!!!

Some random thoughts inspired by what I've read on this thread:

DB: I suppose I'm what you'ld term a "neo-con" but I would wholeheartedly support a lifting of the embargo against Cuba. the fall of teh soviet Union should prove that you can kill Marxism with kindness and heavy exposure to the benefits of a free-market economy!

DB: YOU were the first person to bring up any particular political belief, why do I find that incongruous to your claim that the "neocons" use every opportunity to parrot the "right wing jocks" talking points. Hmmmmmmm! (he who smelt it dealt it?)

MACS (and others): Okay, there's a few problems with the system as it sets, and I honestly dont know if it CAN be fixed. My points are as follows:
1) It costs MILLIONS to win an elected office. We have made it that way, not wanting to vote for somebody we've never heard of, so they buy up TV and radio time to keep their accomplishments(?) and names in front of us. The presidency only pays something like $250,000 a year, and tens, or hundreds of millions of dollars are spent trying to win that office. This can only mean one of two things. Either the candidate is a complete idiot who ins incapable of simple mathematics (all the Bush haters are jumping on that one already!), or he's a crook who is planning to peddle his influence to whoever will make sure he has a comfortable retirement. (I can hear the Kerry haters all saying "yep, that's the other choice"), or maybe there's a third possibility, that the sucker is just a whack job who just wants power for it's own sake, and THOSE are the ones who really scare me, but I honestly don't think we have one of those trying to get in this time.

Overall, I think that none of us really thinks we're going to change one anothers minds, I think, (at least I do) that if a person of the opposing viewpoint makes a post, and a response is not made, then anyone out there reading will think that that persons opinion is the "uncontested truth". so I think most of the debate, both the eloquent and the profane are aimed more at the undecided than at the person rebutted.

Here, here. Will the right honorable member of the United States Armed Forces, Mr. CWFoster please contribute more often to the political debates ;-}

Your post exemplifies my point in starting this tread in the first place.

CW... Your comments are Fair and Balanced. Hey You are really right on with the last paragraph.

On the "Smelt it Dealt it" comment. Next time you smell an ISOM cigar let me know.

You cannot do this:

>>>Amend Article II, section 1 of the U.S. Constitution (e.g. Electoral College) and go with a popular vote to elect the president.

The reason it is in there in the first place is to protect the diverse interests of the nation. The vote of a person in Kansas, Nebraska, or Montana would be rendered meaningless with such a change.

The big city kids want our resources, but they don't want our opinions. The Electoral College protects us country folk from you big city ghouls.

However this is an excellent idea:

>>>2 years of mandatory military service for everyone (no exceptions) starting upon high school graduation or drop-out.

This one too...

>>>Flat tax rate of 20% for every person in the US. No deductions.

Except 20% is too much money in the hands of the government. We need to force the government to be smaller and the only way to do that is limit taxation.

IMO - all government - local, state, and federal - should get NO MORE than 10% of an individual's income AND it MUST be done with ONE TAX that MUST BE PAID with a personal check...no more of this tax deduction crap.

I agree shammill that 20% is probably too much. I was just proposing the flat tax rate; the number I pulled from my ***. I guess that my beef with the EC is that it really doesn't accomplish what it was put in place to protect against. I think that the states with low populations are always going to have a diminished voice in the federal government (being from KY I should know). I think that with the removal of the EC at least there wouldn't be this argument that we are not a true representative government or that the election was bogus. I know that I'm greatly simplifying the debate on the EC. It is only because I'm not really qualified nor do I posses the knowledge to argue the point. Thanks for the comments.

RD: well, i drive an SUV, smoke cigars in it and am a liberal. but if you flip me off, i'll just grin back at'cha and toss you a toraño. 😃

actually, no -- it's not libs who want to make smoking illegal dang near everywhere. it's the people who are rampantly phobic about smoke, period. they're rich and poor, liberal and conservative, white and black and asian and latino &c., they're old and young -- they're all over the place.

now don't get confused because democrats use the ass for its party animal; there's the ass party and then there's the TIGHT-a$$ed party. the anti-smoking fanatics belong to the latter. 😃