this is silly stuff Jon Boy. Do you really think that any of those 18 guys would be on stage with him. And if any of those 18 had actually served with him, don't you think they would have said so...it certainly would have served their point better to have made that clear. I don't believe they would have let that pass by since their agenda is clear....as is yours.

but if you know different...and can actually point out a single person who claims Kerry's wounds were self inflicted, who was an eye-witness...than the world needs to know that. I need to know that. It would certainly change my view and I believe a signifigant number of others.

Yo Danny:

Your Statement:


"As far as I can tell, there isn't one signature on that list from someone who actually served along side of Kerry."


But how can you make that statement when in FACT you have just proven to us that you don't know who served with kerry.

Now Danny boy you have proved you can't be taken seriously and in fact you just make things up to suit your own purpose. Like I said your not worthy enough to debate.

JonR

you must have had experience making pipe cleaner animals. Your ability to twist things around is well practiced. Go to K-Mart and buy a mirror.

you basically said these 18 guys were credible enough to take seriously when they made exremely serious charges against Kerry's integrity, and it isn't even important enough to you to first find out how they might know this....but you post it. You throw it up as fact, I question it, and I'm the one without credibility according to you. You're a comedian.

Yo Danny:

kerry hasn't tried to stop the book from being published. When the book comes out in August, we will see if kerry sues for slander and defamation of character ( The only way kerry could get character is in a seringe like his botox). If he doesn't sue that in itself will validate the book.

JonR

yep Danny they did serve with him around him and over him but also in the same arena at the very same time frame he was there.. only thinf is the rest of these guys finished their tour... and a few of these guys were his commanders... you gotta read the story and I posted the links only to be charged at saying you wanted facts... how close can you get them??

John Kerry **** on the Veterans in the 1970's and every chance he had since then and will do it if he makes it to office... and when he does that he's ****ting on America Also!!!!

Thats a FACT!!!!
Hog

Why didn't Ann Coulter sue Al Franken?
Why didn't Sean Hannity sue Al Franken?
Why didn't George Bush sue Al Franken?
Why didn't Rush Limbaugh sue Al Franken?
Why didn't the countless others sue Al Franken?

I'm not sure I know the answer. I had this same discussion with other neo-cons, and their point was that libel is very hard to prove...and that all lawyers would be sued perpetually if all libels were pursued. There is also the question of whether or not the issue is something Kerry would want as a topic of conversation between August and November...I would think not. So this is a good point you make, but I suspect not at all any kind of defining element. I would prefer the active duty rosters, and then you would still be at a "his word vs. their word" scenario...and whose got what axe to grind. The bottom line is that it wasn't worth bringing up in the first place.

I'm sorry if I missed something...it's hard to see it all...there were a lot of quotes there. Which guys served with him and actually saw him inflicting his own injuries?

Yo Danny:

Your statement:

"The bottom line is that it wasn't worth bringing up in the first place."

It is worth bringing up that a man who is running for the Presidency lied to obtain three purple hearts.

It is worth bringing up that a man who is running for the Presidency lied to cut his tour of duty in Vietnam by 8 months.

It is worth bringing up for the military men and woman who served in Vietnam.

JonR

certainly it's worth it....but only if unquestionably true. Otherwise, it's just part of a larger smear campaign. How can you blame me questioning something as blatant as that?

Seriously Jon, do you really think that some news service wouldn't be blasting that all over the media airwaves if they could do so without fear of recrimination? It would be the story of the year for sure. Hearing it firsthand on a cigar bbs is not exactly what the Bush camp would engineer...and if they had their hands on this info, and they could prove it, it would be an overnight sensation. You must know that.

Danny try these:
http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/forum/forum.cfm?action=list&forumID=9&messageDisplay=0000000024724 

Even the gar makers are against the libs.
http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/forum/forum.cfm?action=list&forumID=7&messageDisplay=0000000024561 

Danny does the conduct of Kerry when he came home from Nam bother you?

I am a conservative, not a neo-con and not a Republican.

What really gets me about the Dems is:
ACT
The complete refusal for tort reform especially with medical lawsuits - now they are against a plan the Docs support
Affirmative action
The removal of the 10 commandments from judicial buildings
Against Christmas displays
God in the pledge

Yo Danny:

Your statement:

"Seriously Jon, do you really think that some news service wouldn't be blasting that all over the media airwaves if they could do so without fear of recrimination? It would be the story of the year for sure. Hearing it firsthand on a cigar bbs is not exactly what the Bush camp would engineer...and if they had their hands on this info, and they could prove it, it would be an overnight sensation. You must know that."

Had you taken the time and read my original post that started this thread you would have seen the book ( already #2 on the best seller list) is to be released in August and that is when as we used to say in the Corps the **** will hit the fan ( or in this case kerry ).

You know if your going to make derogatory remarks about what someone posts, you should at the very least read what was posted.

JonR

How's about a little truth here. Choke on it while you want to believe the lies. Here's the facts about Kerry while in the Senate according to his voting record...

He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle

He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank

He voted to kill every aircraft carrier laid down from 1988.

He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system

He voted to Kill the F-15 Strike Eagle

He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16

He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade

He voted to Kill the B-1

He voted to Kill the B-2

He voted to Kill the Patriot Anti Missile System

He voted to Kill the FA-18

He voted to Kill the B-2

He voted to Kill the F117

In short, he voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons systems since 1988 to include the battle armor and night vision goggles for our troops.

He also voted to kill all anti terrorism activities of every agency of the U.S. Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%, to cut the funding for the CIA by 80%, and cut the funding for the NSA by 80%.

But then he voted to increase OUR funding for U.N operations by 800%!

Now what were our soldiers going to do to defend themselves? Raise the sporks from their MRE's and take the hill? Hold up their M-16's and mount bayonets while marching to Iraq and Afghanistan from New Jersey? This is the guy(and I'm using the term loosely, because anyone that's as vain as him to inject botox in their forehead isn't all that manly!)that wants to lead OUR nation. This guy(another loosely used form of the word)thought it was okay to commit war crimes during his 4 months(yeah, only 4 months!)in Vietnam and then come back and organize anti-war rallies here on US soil. THAT'S the TRUTH. Can YOU handle it?

Danny will not believe the vote listing, as he is too damn pent up on his own "facts" and "opinions" and also one of the guys that would believe anything that JfK told him fact or fiction, opinion or fact! Yet he would call GWB a liar and cheat.........hmmmmm, something wrong with that boy and how long before he disappears from the board like others who were of his ilk.......remember JDrabinski or whatever his handle was? mhpd, another brilliant backer of the liberal line!

Charlie

Oh, DMV great post!

This guy Kerry is the same guy who stood at the podium in the Fleet Center and vowed to rebuild the military although the had voted against them in the past! Those are the facts, Danny boy!

Charlie

DMV -- that's a distortion. kerry -- or any OTHER senator -- did not have the POWER to line vote against those items. allocation votes are all or nothing. you could put that record up on almost any senator of either party.

what was rumsfield's stance, though? how about listing the things he tried to eliminate from the military?

hog -- carefuly now; only ONE of those men quoted actually served with kerry. many of those who DID serve with him continue to stand by him today.

also, adm. hoffman, who is quoted as critizing kerry's performance in 'nam, is on record IN VIET NAM for praising his swift boat missions and the actions he took then.

those weapons systems were all part of Senate Bill S3189 which was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act. There was no vote on those weapons systems individually. Kerry was one of 16 senators (including 5 republicans) to vote against the defense appropriations.

Guess who said this:

"Overall, since I've been Secretary, we will have taken the 5 year defense program down by well over $300 billion. That's the peace dividend...and now we're adding to that another $50 billion...of so-called peace dividend."

And this:

"Congress has let me cancel a few programs. But you've squabbled and sometimes bickered and horse-traded and ended up forcing me to spend money on weapons that don't fill a vital need in these times of tight budgets and new requirements. You've directed me to buy more M-1's, F-14's, and F-16's-all great systems, but we have enough of them." --****** Cheney while he was in George H. Bush's cabinet.

Let's tell the truth guys. DMV, thanks for bringing this up, it makes a point about the way facts get twisted to serve an agenda.

I stated that he voted against EVERY APPROPRIATION! The items listed ranged from the years 1988 to present. Those ARE facts. There's no agenda. He talks about a stronger military but his past record going all the way back to when he stated out of his own mouth that he committed war crimes and atrocities is one of blinded anger towards a military that this and any nation needs and wants.

Would you like it better if I stated he was for it before he voted against it? Does that make you warm and comfy? Does that disguise the fact that this guy is a major waffler?

PS...Cav...2 soldiers out of his unit of 20 stand with him.

http://www.swiftvets.com/ 

Pass your mouse over the picture to see the fact. There are some soldiers that are asking for a cease and desist order of the use of their image and likenesses as well as the photos he's been using.

No distortion there.