I already told the story of my run-in with Guido at the trade show. But did I mention?: At an automotive injection molding shop outside of detroit, I was not allowed to plug in a drop light. I had to wait over 20 minutes for the electrician to come off of break and do it for me. At another shop, I tossed a candy bar wrapper and missed the trash barrel. I was NOT allowed to pick it up. Apparently, it was someone else's job. Back in high school when my History teacher was known (even by other teachers) to be a waste, the school couldn't get rid of him due to tenure in the union. When an ex-girlfriend wanted to go to work at her new job, she would have had to cross a roudy picket line to do so (she's a nurse). My brother sells natural gas service to residential accounts, and is FORCED to use the union installers even though they cost his customers about 30% more than other licensed installers. Perhaps it's different at your job. It sounds like you earn an honest living. But you'd also earn an honest living even without the crutch of the union. Sure, the events I listed here are only a few specifics, but believe me that's only the tip of the iceburg. And NONE of it would happen if the unions didn't exist.

In one of your posts...Is the person on the assembly line with minimal education entitled to $35 an hour....implies that Union members are uneducated. I preach the party line because I believe in it and it is my right too. I'm not trying to force it upon you as Guido(if he even exists) would! You expect everone here to fall into line for your beliefs and statements(some of which are good), but if someone dares to disagree regardless of the issue, you go off like a crazed, blind and deaf banshee! With regard to your trade show fiction, you should take it upon yourself to promote your product in a non-union environment, that is, if you can find one!

So, you're saying that ALL union members are well educated? Reread my post. All I did was point out that under the union the pay scale is based on time on the job, NOT by skills or effort. As for "Guido", although that may not be his name, the story is 100% true. You are so caught up in your Union euphoria that you dismiss facts as fiction just so you can sleep better. I'll gladly tell you the story over a nice (non-union) cigar. It's actually quite hilarious. And I know that although it appeared stereotypical it was most likely the exception to the rule. But any organization that could allow that kind of mentality with zero repercussion has outlived it's usefulness.

Nope! Never said ALL union members were WELL-educated! You were quoted in one of your posts questioning the worth of the person with minimal education deserving $35 an hour. I just said that there are educated union members and not all union members fit your fictional stereotype of being Italian(Guido) and uneducated and lazy as you have used to argue your point! I also pointed out that there are some amazingly talented union and non-union tradesmen(women) who unfortunately do have minimal education but are no less revered than those with education. I would love to share a cigar with you to further discuss this point. We should probably bring more than a few though as this discussion will probably never end! John

It is sometimes difficult to make a clear point in this forum, do in part to my lack of ability to properly paragraph my sentences, and also due to my inability to complete a thought without rambling into another one. But my point is the complete opposite of what you are saying. MY point was NEVER that unions were comprised mostly of lazy folks. If they were all lazy then they would deserve the equal pay they receive. My point was that ability is largely ignored, thereby creating a disincentive to work harder. Entitlement (by means of tenure) replaces achievement (by means of effort). And one last thing: Although I do enjoy discussing this subject with someone as knowlegable and passionate as you, there are many places where I can not be so bold. You see, one thing that they don't teach in union-cult school is to be tolerant with those who disagree.

The responsibility of tolerance lies with those who have the wider vision....George Elliot

justforfun : although i have never joined a union, i did try to orgnize the aaa in so calif. the sales people were having their production quotos increased every other year. at the end of 8 years i was working about 50% more for the same money. i had 3 of the 20 odd offices 90% signed, but the teamsters wanted at least 60 % of the total offices and the other four guys never did squat to get cards signed from their share of offices. i quit as soon as i realized they would probably dump me and i opened my own office. maybe unions are corrupt now and maybe they always were, but no more children working, no more sweat shops (except foreign labor working here) the demise of the unions by the nasa agreement has screwd up a lot of people. people used to go to work for some company on an assembly line and knew they could buy a home because they expected to have a permanent job with promotions possible. when you guys ask your parents about the american dream, it was in the 40's and 50's, when almost anyone could buy his own home and live a fairly decent life. welfare as we know it was none existent. people didn't fight for the best parking spot like they do now, because they are under so much pressure they bring it home. road rage didn't exist. people wer generally in better spirits. did the unions do that? i think they helped. at least you aren't working for slave wages 12 hours a day with no hope. nasa is the culprit that has changed our lives for the worst. i know it had to be clinton and gore for everything bad and w will fix it, so any mention of these people, i will ignore as the nonsense it is.