Gene363
21 years ago
Keep the Electoral College as it is.

With out the system smaller or less populated states will get the shaft.

Give the founding father some credit.

goodwrench
21 years ago
HELP; There is one time that I agree with Rick. If all states used that system it would work. Colorado effort to do it by its self was about the dumbest things I ever heard of.
GLEN
CigarPrimate
21 years ago
I may be mistaken, but I do not recall any state that uses an electoral college system in gubernatorial elections, and the world hasn't ended for them. If democracy is supposed to be so great, hell, let's give it a try, you know.
EI
  • EI
  • Herf-A-Holic
21 years ago
democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner
Cparker
21 years ago
I would think that, given the environment when the Constitution was developed, perhaps the electoral college was a safeguard against a popular vote reverting back to appointing a king.

Persons under stress tend to return to what is familiar since, despite how bad it is, there is comfort in the familiar.

I think the Communist Party in Russia has tried to draw on a similar sentiment.

As for electoral college, I actually thinked in worked here (and I did not vote for Bush). I think it worked because this mechanism gave Kerry the analysis to realize the point to concede, and alse allowed avoiding a nasty legal fight.

Cparker
CigarPrimate
21 years ago
I don't see how you can draw that conclusion, because Bush clearly won both the electoral as well as popular votes in this recent election. It was a slam dunk.
CigarPrimate
21 years ago
Additionally, it states clearly in the constitution that anyone holding a title may not hold public office in America. If you want to know why democracy is proscribed in this republic, see Madison's Federal paper #10. He spells it out in detail. Of course he was firnly against the vice of 'paper money' too, but that hold for very long. Who knows, we could have a democracy in America someday, it works ok for the states in Governor's elections. California is supposedly the 5th or so largest economic state on the globe, and democratic voting seems to work ok there.
Cparker
21 years ago
Edwards was of the view that the provisional ballots in Ohio were open for a legal challenge.

In a pure popular vote, challenges of this sort would easily spread. Electoral college avoids this type of fight.

The electoral college allowed focus on finite areas to reach the 270, and provided the basis to view that that quickly concluded a legal challenge was a bad idea.

You are right, Bush had the popular vote and the needed 270. But the article I read on Kerry's decision was it was easier to make and quicker because of the way the electoral college worked.

Cparker
bassdude
21 years ago
wow tailgater and rickamaven agree

I fail to see how the EC gives equal anything. It is basically based on population(with the exception of the minimum). The most equal way is as stated above one person one vote.

The function of the College of Electors in choosing the president can be likened to that in the Roman Catholic Church of the College of Cardinals
selecting the Pope. The original idea was for the most knowledgeable and informed individuals from each State to select the president based solely on merit and without regard to State of origin or political party.

http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm 
niteorday
21 years ago
Or........how about a County College ?.....Bush won 96% of the counties in the USA........what's a mandate ?
ilovemaui
21 years ago
Without the electoral college the small states would have no say. We live in a Republic not a democracy. Demoracy is mob rule. I say leave it alone.
AVB
  • AVB
  • Aficionado
21 years ago
It is entirely possible to win the EC without having the majority of states so that arguement doesn't work.

I'm not in favor of the "winner take all" aspect of most states and would rather have the Maine or Nebraska system in place.
corvairkid
21 years ago
So why do we have the electoral college, instead of just a straight popular vote? Simple. This system allows EVERY state to have a say, no matter what.

First, let's quickly describe what the electoral vote method is.

In the electoral college process, each state receives the number of electoral votes equal to the number of its members of the House, which depends on the state's population, and the number of its senators, which is always two.

So, for example, Illinois has 22 electoral votes, because it has 20 members of the House and two senators. California has the most electoral votes, with 54.

No state gets any fewer than 3 electoral votes. The District of Columbia also has 3 electoral votes making 538 total electoral votes possible.

You need 50% plus one vote in order to win.

That means that currently, 270 electoral votes are need to win.

Let's run some examples with realistic numbers in a fictional race where 100% of the population votes between two candidates. (Impossible, I know, but it makes calculating the numbers easier for all of us.) These numbers are according to State Population Estimates, in 7/99 (latest figures I could find).

Now with a total population of 272,690,813 people in the USA, that means, theoretically, a 51% majority vote equals 139,072,315 people voting for the winner.

the most populous state is California with 33,145,121 people there. The lowest population belongs to Wyoming with a whopping 479,602 people living there.

In a popular vote election, if 51% of California vote for one candidate, that's 16,309,948 votes.

If the lowest population states vote 100% for the other candidate, California's votes nullify all the votes of:

West Virginia
New Mexico
Nebraska
Maine
Idaho
New Hampshire
Hawaii
Rhode Island
Montana
Delaware
South Dakota
North Dakota
Alaska
Vermont
District of Columbia
and Wyoming.
(The lowest population states)

In the closest race possible, all these 15 states (and one district) COMBINED will never have their voice heard no matter what against just half of California.

If we increase the California vote to 55%, then we can also cut out Nevada from the elections since 18,229,817 of California has had their say.

If a candidate gets 65% of California, or 21,544,329 votes, then Utah is also thrown out of the race.

In fact, in order to get 51% of the votes or 139,072,315, a candidate needs the votes from ONLY:

California
Texas
New York
Florida
Illinois
Pennsylvania
Ohio
Michigan
and New Jersey.
(The highest population states)

This gives a candidate 139,883,334 votes and the win.

9 states have just spoken for the entire Union.

and that's in the CLOSEST election possible. At 55% and 65% it's even worse.

All hail the winner!!

In comparison:

In the same elections described above, a 51% vote in California wins all 54 electoral votes. To balance that, the other candidate must only win 51% (and thus all the electoral votes) of the 15 lowest population states instead of 100%. With that result being more plausible, candidates are more likely to visit and pay attention to the smaller states.

If 65% of California votes for a candidate, nothing changes. The other states, still have their say without needing to vote 100% for one candidate.

In fact in a really close race, where the electoral votes are split 267/268, it's possible that Wyoming's 3 electoral votes can tip the scale in someone's favor. The lowest population state has a say where, in a popular vote election, they probably won't even be considered.

So as we can see, as long as we want ALL the states to have a "fair" say as to who will lead the USA, we must keep the electoral college system intact.

We MUST remember that this system was created toward the beginning of this country's creation when only a handful of colonies/states existed. They wanted a system that kept one branch of the government from electing the office of another branch, and they also needed something that could allow smaller states to have a say. The electoral college was not an overnight decision. It was a well thought out planned portion of our government to keep itself well regulated.

I believe that impulse attempts to remove the system are very bad and short sighted actions. Please reconsider any thoughts you might have to ridding our country of this imperfect but useful voting system.

Now, I am sorry this is so long, but I wanted to be complete, and I understand how hard this all is to grasp, if from other places, as the US is unique in giving each seperate state equality, in our Representative Democracy, aka, Republic. These situations never come into play anywhere but the US, because what other Republics are there? And what is the realitive populations and land masses of the countries you seek to compare us with?

And finally, someone posted above about the Electoral College, it being unfair, etc. It is with us by virtue of our Constitution, therefore it is the Law of the Land as much as Congress is, and the banning of slaves. It can be admended, changed, at anytime. Two-thirds of all the states must agree....by vote of their individual State Legislatures. It has indeed been changed many times......27 times in fact.
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