[quote=ZRX1200]Damn Ted Kennedy to hell.[/quote]

Well, yeah. He did negotiate the bill and agreed to it, however the plan was W.'s and a modified version of the program he instituted in TX.

I blame Obama and his two years of Democrat controlled Congress for not repealing it.

[quote=HockeyDad]I blame Obama and his two years of Democrat controlled Congress for not repealing it.[/quote]

Well, bless your heart.

What's wrong, you don't like being complicit?

[quote=FuzzNJ] No child left behind is a failure and was from day one. [/quote]

I agree with you 100% on this issue! It is a good "idea", but not feasable in the real world. NCLB just means no child moves forward in real life.

E

[quote=wheelrite]Teachers should work 12 months a year.

Like the rest of us,,,[/quote]


I can't speak for any state but my own, but...

1) the perception that teachers work for 9 months and get paid for 12 is an incorrect one. Yes, the checks keep coming even through the 3 months of summer "vacation," but that's because the yearly salary is divided by the full 52 weeks. If teachers only got paid for the 9 in-school months, they'd still have the same yearly salary - it would just be distributed differently.
2) at our school, at least, a LOT of that summer "vacation" is spent in mandatory training (in the school building, not at conferences,) curriculum development, and training in new teaching methods.
3) you'd be surprised how many teachers DO work 12 months a year - they pick up summer jobs to make ends meet.

You really don't want to hear my rant on No Child Left Behind.

[quote=rwilly]Great points on how other countries (not just China) track their students, weed them out at an early age, and then only compare their best and brightest to our kids who are on IEP, are BD, have ADHD, have a 504, and are LD, as well as the family being hotlined to DFS... Yes, many of the acronyms and hoops we deal with in the US because everyone is supposed to be able to succeed.

Kids who can't pass 8th grade science class think they can be a doctor. That's all fine and dandy, but not reality. That doesn't make them any less of a person, be we need to get a bit more realistic.

Everyone is some part of the problem - parents, students, administration, and teachers.[/quote]
Just injecting a minor tweak here about the "get a bit more realistic" part of your intelligent post.. The teachers are the most realistic about the potential of their students. The idea that almost all children can/should be mainstreamed is not to promote false promises or fool children into believing in fairy tales about becoming doctors...it is to integrate those previously shunned from "normalcy" in school and society and to get the weakest among us to maximize their individual potential. In the loooong run, it saves all of us money if kids with severe impediments in life do not have to be institutionalized, if they can learn to take basic care of themselves, learn to read some, maybe more than some, learn a set of life skills, hopefully hold down a job eventually and be much more self sufficient.

Today there are autistic adults with advanced degrees doing research. When I was in elementary schools in the late 50's-early to mid 60's they would have had helmets on their heads and been kept fed and clean.

The science of educating people is a world apart from folks crying about teachers getting paid too much, not working hard, etc. Most of the problems in classrooms today is that these new populations in each classroom come with mandates but no funding and require specialists in many cases. In McBryde's case it is idiotically severe. I can't believe he has half a classroom of special ed kids!

Oh, and for those still not convinced that most professional teachers work much more than you think, did you ever have to meet with any teachers because junior was a frigging illiterate obstinant sh*thead in class? Or maybe you wanted to see how he could do better in school? What time were these meetings held? I'll bet anyone it was before or after school was in session...AKA Personal Time! off the clock! But your moronic offspring mattered enough. How many people you helping professionally off the clock, gratis???

Thought so.

[quote=frankj1]

Oh, and for those still not convinced that most professional teachers work much more than you think, did you ever have to meet with any teachers because junior was a frigging illiterate obstinant sh*thead in class? Or maybe you wanted to see how he could do better in school? What time were these meetings held? I'll bet anyone it was before or after school was in session...AKA Personal Time! off the clock! But your moronic offspring mattered enough. How many people you helping professionally off the clock, gratis???

Thought so.[/quote]

Boo Hoo...

The schools are failing to educate thus the teachers are failing as well...
Time for a re-boot on the whole system...
WE WASTE/SPEND MORE PER STUDENT THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON EDUCATION.
Teachers are required to work 180 DAYS per year and are well paid.In many cases overpaid for the results they produce.
The education system here has a standard of the lowest common denominator thus reducing standards and expectations.All caused by the Teachers ,Administrators and Unions,

I know of what I speak.Both of my parents are retired educators.

Frankj - My princess went through an obstinate phase last year. She doesn't have a "hurry up" bone in her body to begin with, but this year she hit a spell where NOTHING... and I do mean NOTHING was being completed in class. Her AMAZING teacher asked if she could stay after school to finish her work.... EVERY DAY, until she decided it was easier to finish in class. This woman sat in that classroom with my girl till after 5pm some nights. She routinely takes her lunch back to the classroom to be with kiddos who need to finish work at lunch or who need extra help. This is not an uncommon occurrence at our school. Our teachers are phenomenal.

i remember getting hit with yardstick by the Nuns in grade school....they were evil

[quote=05busa]i remember getting hit with yardstick by the Nuns in grade school....they were evil[/quote]

Me too...

[quote=wheelrite]Boo Hoo...

The schools are failing to educate thus the teachers are failing as well...
Time for a re-boot on the whole system...
WE WASTE/SPEND MORE PER STUDENT THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON EDUCATION.
Teachers are required to work 180 DAYS per year and are well paid.In many cases overpaid for the results they produce.
The education system here has a standard of the lowest common denominator thus reducing standards and expectations.All caused by the Teachers ,Administrators and Unions,

I know of what I speak.Both of my parents are retired educators.[/quote]




Wheel - have you ever looked at the adult to child ratio required in daycare centers? And these folks are just babysitting...
In a public school classroom in Idaho, there are 35-40 students for ONE teacher. The parents of many of those kids provide ZERO backup for the teacher at home, and it comes out in the classroom via discipline problems. Very little actual discipline takes place, due to a fear of lawsuits. The teachers end up babysitting, and trying to get a little education to stick to the kids in the process. Our district just laid off HALF of their teaching staff... but the student population has continued to GROW. The problem with our educational system is not going to be fixed by working from the bottom up - changes need to occur starting at the TOP. Picking at the symptoms won't cure the disease.

[quote=DaQueenBeez]Frankj - My princess went through an obstinate phase last year. She doesn't have a "hurry up" bone in her body to begin with, but this year she hit a spell where NOTHING... and I do mean NOTHING was being completed in class. Her AMAZING teacher asked if she could stay after school to finish her work.... EVERY DAY, until she decided it was easier to finish in class. This woman sat in that classroom with my girl till after 5pm some nights. She routinely takes her lunch back to the classroom to be with kiddos who need to finish work at lunch or who need extra help. This is not an uncommon occurrence at our school. Our teachers are phenomenal.[/quote]

The teachers in the district where we live have been great too. Luckily, so far, my kids are doing fairly well. My youngest needs more attention than my oldest, but whenever there is a chance for extra attention, classes, afterschool attention, gifted and talented classes, summer school, gifted and talented summer school, we take advantage of it, always.

[quote=DaQueenBeez]Wheel - have you ever looked at the adult to child ratio required in daycare centers? And these folks are just babysitting...
In a public school classroom in Idaho, there are 35-40 students for ONE teacher. The parents of many of those kids provide ZERO backup for the teacher at home, and it comes out in the classroom via discipline problems. Very little actual discipline takes place, due to a fear of lawsuits. The teachers end up babysitting, and trying to get a little education to stick to the kids in the process. Our district just laid off HALF of their teaching staff... but the student population has continued to GROW. The problem with our educational system is not going to be fixed by working from the bottom up - changes need to occur starting at the TOP. Picking at the symptoms won't cure the disease.[/quote]

I agree 100%. It is the reason I am a stay at home dad. The kids we see who are watched by other people, especially people not related, are almost always little brats. My kids are not. Well mannered, smart, empathetic and leaders. I'd rather sacrifice some salary and raise great adults than make more money and have spoiled obnoxious brats as kids.

[quote=05busa]i remember getting hit with yardstick by the Nuns in grade school....they were evil[/quote]
1st grade Nun hit me in the face making my nose bleed and made me stand there while i bled out. Whole class witnessed it and she lied and said no she didnt do such thing.......She died and now rests in hell as Devils slave!!!!

[quote=DaQueenBeez]Wheel - have you ever looked at the adult to child ratio required in daycare centers? And these folks are just babysitting...
In a public school classroom in Idaho, there are 35-40 students for ONE teacher. The parents of many of those kids provide ZERO backup for the teacher at home, and it comes out in the classroom via discipline problems. Very little actual discipline takes place, due to a fear of lawsuits. The teachers end up babysitting, and trying to get a little education to stick to the kids in the process. Our district just laid off HALF of their teaching staff... but the student population has continued to GROW. The problem with our educational system is not going to be fixed by working from the bottom up - changes need to occur starting at the TOP. Picking at the symptoms won't cure the disease.[/quote]

DQB,,,

The student to teacher ratio was much higher until recently.The teachers 40 yrs ago had more students and managed to give them a better edcucation than what today's kids get.
I agreee about the cure. A malignancy must cut out.The Unions and many of the teachers are the tumors and must be removed so that a cure is possible..

education | US Politics
Some devastating factoids on U.S. education from the good folks over at Reason (I have gleaned some numbers from an article well worth reading in whole):

1. According to Department of Education statistics, in 2007-2008 (the latest year available), full-time public school teachers across the country made an average of $53,230 in “total school-year and summer earned income.” That compares favorably to the $39,690 that private school teachers pulled down.

2. According to EducationNext, government employer contribute the equivalent of 14.6 percent of salary to retirement benefits for public school teachers. That compares to 10.4 for private-sector professionals.

3. In 1960-61, public schools spent $2,769 per student, a figure that now totals over $10,000 in real, inflation-adjusted dollars.

4. In 1960, the student-teacher ratio in public schools was 25.8; it’s now at a historic low of 15.

5. In 2007, the percentage of parents with children in assigned public schools who were “very satisfied” with the institution was 52 percent. For parents whose children attended public schools of choice, that figure rose to 62 percent. Parents sending their children to private schools, whether religious or non-sectarian, were “very satisfied” 79 percent of the time.

6. Despite all the extra resources devoted to public school teachers and students, student achievement has been absolutely flat over the past 40 years.

None of this should be surprising given the lack of productivity and efficiency inherent in government monopolies. As the New America Foundation notes:

The U.S. ranked 68th (out of 139 countries) in terms of wastefulness of government spending in the 2010-11 World Economic Forum report on global competitiveness. Experts put our public-sector productivity about 10 years behind that of the rest of our workforce. If public workers could halve that gap, the annual savings would ring in at $100 billion to $300 billion, according to a new study by the McKinsey Global Institute. That would mean the equivalent of a recurring stimulus package every three to eight years

[quote=RICKAMAVEN]what do you all expect. it's georgia. they drool and drawl when they speak.

they elected newt, because he was a straight arrow, family man.

i'd like to hear about mississippi.[/quote]

What you got against Mississippi????


As stated previously..."No Child Left Behind" is dumbing down our future!

Time to let the smart be smart and the dumb be dumb.

[quote=05busa]1st grade Nun hit me in the face making my nose bleed and made me stand there while i bled out. Whole class witnessed it and she lied and said no she didnt do such thing.......She died and now rests in hell as Devils slave!!!![/quote]

Never went to Catholic schools, (Born Again Christian schools) but in first grade public school a teacher got mad, hit her yard stick on my desk really hard because she was pissed, I pretended it hit my hand, no more pissed off teacher. First grade. I remember that clearly. I know many of you will interpret that in a negative way, so be it. ;)

I also remember her crying obsessively over Charlotte's Webb when the spider died. She said she did that every time she read the book, in class. I think she was a little unstable. 😉 Watertown Connecticut, 1973.

[quote=FuzzNJ]Never went to Catholic schools, (Born Again Christian schools) but in first grade public school a teacher got mad, hit her yard stick on my desk really hard because she was pissed, I pretended it hit my hand, no more pissed off teacher. First grade. I remember that clearly. I know many of you will interpret that in a negative way, so be it. ;)

I also remember her crying obsessively over Charlotte's Webb when the spider died. She said she did that every time she read the book, in class. I think she was a little unstable. 😉 Watertown Connecticut, 1973.
[/quote]

Wilbur slept in manure...