Eh, shit happens.

Well let's see...

I am done with CAO because general cigar in their "infinite wisdom" jacked prices up on a declining product in order to "bolster the bottom line" IMO

As stated previously CAO products in recent years have had a declining quality/consistency issue. the America/Brazilia/Italia made today are a disgrace to what these lines where when first released and don't belong in the new higher price point range. At $5ish these were great smokes with value now they have a jacked price dictated by new corporate ownership. This move by a company already seen as "greedy" only intensifies us "average schmucks" disdain for the whole portfolio of products.

On a side note LGC's have also tanked IMO since Ernesto was run off. Thankfully Ernesto was able to get his new quality blends up and running in a relatively short time.

I thought your name looked familiar... LOL.

I think there are a number of people who will read what you wrote and appreciate it being said, even if they never come out and say as such.

I do, even if CAO's acquisition by General is really a non-issue to me, having some good friends in the industry, reading something from a manufacturer always puts a different light on things.

As for me and CAO, they had or have, I assume they still make the ones I smoked, a few, maybe 2 or 3, specific cigars (vitola & marque) that I found enjoyable from time to time. I don't smoke them anymore and haven't in years, not because CAO changed, or made a second run of the cigars, or they changed factories, or were acquired, but because I changed. Those flavors were simply no longer desirable / enjoyable to me. Although this never stopped me from trying some of the new cigars from CAO over the last few years.

Now that General owns the brand, nothing changes for me. If I see a new product from CAO that sounds intriguing, I'll try it. If not, I won't.

Uh, ok. Makes perfect sense to me.

yeah it does...this is the US of A after all and we "sheeple" don't use our brains anymore...just follow what we are supposed to think when FOX/CNN/MSNBC or whoever has the "correct" opinion at the time. [sarcasm]

Last comment from me.. I think anyway..

General has not raised prices on any CAO product (or any General product in 2011 for that matter) since we've had the brand. In fact we've lowered prices on Flavours (not that this group is into that most likely). I'd be curious to know where you think prices have been raised - because it did not come from General Cigar if so. One of the things we saw was the attractiveness of La Traviata to everyone - great cigar, great price point - and then released a new frontmark to La Traviata in June called Luminoso that is actually cheaper than the lowest priced La Traviata ($4.75 SRP) - hopefully allowing even more people to enjoy LT.

Very reasonable posts by you btw.

right after general took over CAO there was a mandated price increase that took effect roughly around March of this year

Interesting on this - I know Giannini talked with Pete about the Fleur thing - but that was not a General lawsuit. I don't want to throw other manufacturers under the bus on that - but as far as I know that wasn't something we brought to bear by General at all. Let me check and get my facts straight to be certain. If you've got info on that that proves otherwise, let me know. That's the first I've ever heard of General doing that - again maybe someone else, but not us.

As far as this March mandated price increase - I honestly don't know what that's referring to. If there was one, I'd have to be the one to approve it. And I didn't. The last thing we would have done upon taking the brands would be to mandate a price increase. That's just insanity and stupid, and yes if we did it - that would be greed personified. But we didn't. So again - not sure where that info came from. If you can show me where you saw that, I'd love to know.

I have no dog in this fight but I have to ask, what makes you think General Cigar had anything to do with this?

Ed can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the OSA is the first cigar to roll out from General's factories, and if this is indeed correct, any changes you are perceiving would be a Torano and CAO pre-General acquisition issue.

If not, then I have to question how you know that the cigars you received from CAO were post General acquisition production from General facilities, and, if what you feel are negative changes are, in fact, due to something that General was responsible for and not a carry-over issue from the former owners & manufacturers.

As I said, I have no dog in this fight, but using these these arguments to hold General accountable is illogical. If it caused you walk away from the brand some time ago, then, well ok, that's your deal.

That was Altadis, not General.

Altadis USA owns the non-Cuban Montecristo marque.

TG my point with the Gol! example was a CAO comment not General and was in the context of trying new CAO products (which they do now produce I assume).

the next thing, was the issue of pulling product or the right to sell some CAO cigars at auction... That turned quite a few people off, and while I Don't completely understand this move, it is your company to make those decisions...

The third thing I see that could be part of the issue could be when Tim left the company... I will admit that I didn't follow the story(mostly because I knew Tim was just the face and not the company) but, what I did read sounded like he was run out... Again, true or not, I don't know...

You mentioned in an earlier post about chefs, blends, and recipes... If somebody has frequented a restaurant for years and knows the food well, when the chef leaves for whatever reason, the food does change.... There is no way around it...

I myself still enjoy pretty much all CAO products, and will continue to do so... If you keep coming up with new product like OSA, I see a bright future!!!

No worries brother. Happens to all of us at some time or another.

Fair enough. Things, and blame, are quickly getting muddled in this thread, hence why I was interested in knowing where you were coming from on that.

I certainly understand your position, there are some manufacturers and marques that, based on my past experiences, I tend to avoid, but sometimes things change. Some cases I've been surprised by the new stuff or post-major change stuff, and, in other cases not.

Honestly, if consistency were my gripe with CAO, I'd be elated about General running things now. General Cigar's master blenders know how to keep things tasting the same from year to year, crop to crop. And they do it very well.

I know this is a 'CAO' thread but +1000 on Todd's sentiment above. Not quite sure how you can call LGC "innovatvie" when it consists of things like...

GLUING an N on a DYED cigar

but I digress...

Frankly the LGC of today is a shadow of its former self. The LGCs of the early and mid-90s has wonderful flavor and balance not the bland one note sticks of today. I remember lovingly aging two boxes of the Wavells one from Miami and the other when the majority of rolling moved to the DR for over three years. Even this amount of aging couldn't sae those pitiful DR sticks they just wound up tasting washed out and one dimensional. All of the subtle flavors and balance had gone out the window. While the Miami sticks were slightly better neither was up to par with the LGC of old.

Absolutely. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In the absence of information, people tend to speculate to the negative as well. I think that happens quite a bit.

You guys are right here, and as several of you have mentioned to me, this is probably where the whole pricing perception thing comes into play.

I could say that General didn't run Tim off, but that probably sounds hollow. Tim summed it up himself the day he left the company:

http://www.toastedfoot.com/2010/11/personal-statement-tim-ozgener-leaves-cao-international/ 

We're getting into a complex group of hypothetical chefs, cooks, and other eating related terms - but I get what you're saying. Again, all I'm saying is that the recipes are the same. You can argue whether or not there are master chefs at the helm at HATSA and Esteli, but having been there many times, I know those guys know what they are doing - and they can make those recipes.

I'm glad you liked OSA, and I hope others will give it a try and see if it is for them. If not, that's fine too - hopefully we'll make something they will like down the road.

Thanks again to everyone for giving me their perspective - I hope to meet some of you at events down the road - in fact, Rick is about to head out for about 40 events throughout this fall to talk about OSA. Keep an eye out at your local B+M for those - and of course the info will be up at our website as well.

Welcome To the madness. Your responses and questions have been refreshing. Nice to see that a Manufacturer is seecking feedback from consumers in a interactive form of communication. Hats off to you Ed.

Yeah...sorry...the guy comes in with a post saying and it's on the previous page saved in a quote...

"This is the first time I've posted to a board in response to a post like this, as I don't want to seem like I'm invading a sacred space, or trying to sound like a company wonk. I'm generally curious as to why folks have certain opinions and want to make sure everyone has all the facts before they make a decision about CAO. I hope you guys can help me understand and we can at least understand everyone's POV.

- Ed McKenna"

Then alters the post.

So which is it? Now we know. He could've been upfront to begin with but he wasn't. He took the "Gosh, I thought everyone knew who I was" route. Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the CAO brand for years because of the shady stuff they've pulled. Yeah, I'm the one guy that will call it what it is. I really don't care what a rep says. The cigars DID change and it's not just me stating that. Pretty funny that they changes happened, oh about the same timeline that they moved production, but then again...their ""chefs" know best. Please. Now Ed wants to slam anyone that disagreese with his POV? Sorry Ed, I'm all out of 2nd chances when it comes to CAO. There are better brandnames out there and PS...General doesn't carry them! The same dulled brands your "chefs" have killed off are the ones that cannot be found here anymore. Thank God for small miracles I guess.

But please hang around...now that we ALL know who you are...NOW! I don't know you might be a nice guy...Who knows, but the cigars you represent...I don't buy, for a good reason.