adroomi.....pure emotional drivel. Not evrybody, nor even close, in the 'hood' carries a gun. Good try but you obviously didn't have a clue there.

Children cannot carry guns. Yet another emotionally charged false claim. Please, gain some common sense and reply.

adroomi.......I don't carry a gun because of fear. You need to wake up. I carry guns because I won't be fooled by a government claiming 1)there is no danger, 2)my freedom is in the governments hands, 3)the criminal willr egister his guns as well.

All false.

My posts are anti-idiot......stogie, you're an idiot. If you had any idea just how much myself and the folks I work with do for you and your fellow tax payers you would perhaps thank us. However you only see through the thin mask of your red white and blue blinders enough to see what you think is America. Wake up, look around, and then if you are going to reply to my "ninny" posts, at least give a valid arguement.

As I said......no young gangbanger is afraid to die. you replied with "shoot him and he is afraid." No sh*t, sherlock, but up until the moment you shoot him he is fearless. Read it again, and think out your answer before you type.

Who said I want to get rid of guns. I'm writing about socio-economic change in America....not removing guns.

A liberal......you're a fool. Anti-bush? No, I voted for him....twice. Anti-idiot? Yes.

name calling.......good form. Standard garbage that comes from emotionally unstable children.

When I take the time to write out a good 5-6 paragraphs of clear, concise, thought provoking, ideas (right or wrong), and all I get back is a couple of quick lashes in one and two sentence format, I realize that I am in fact dealing with folks who can't debate.

Whether my points of view are right, or whether they are wrong is totally nebulous. They are in fact my views as I see them at the moment I am typing. My ideals can be changed with some well thought out conversation. That's how we learn.

A couple of times I tried to speak my opinion, and a couple of times I was personally attacked by yourself and stogie. I bring to the table..."ninny, DUDE, drivel, etc."

Personally I detest a full grown man (or anybody for that matter) refering to me as "dude." My screen name on this board will do just fine, thanks.

Explaining to me that using all caps to get ones point across is only explaining to me that the author has absolutely no electronic information etiquette, and is most likely the type that would slam their beer on the bar and try to start a fistfight with me. This is not the type of folk that I can discuss things logically with, and therefore, in my opinion, is an idiot.

Mo, if you want to discuss guns with me, and social reform and such, then please do so. Perhaps you can make me understand a bit better. Please however, put something more on the screen for me than one line that calls me a name. Give me something to think on.

Calling me a drivelling liberal, anti-bush, whatever, and then claiming to carry a gun because one fears their government is the height of the pot and the proverbial kettle don't you think?

You worship Bush and his administration, and yet you fear your own government enough to feel the need to carry a gun? Come on now.

Inspire me, convert me, tell me why I am wrong. I'll listen, I really will.

....I would also like to add my apologies for being a bit short tonight....it's been one of those nights.

Stogie,

about your "don't pay taxes, therefore you can't bitch" statement. Please realize that there are about three million of us non-taxing paying expats out here in the world. I suppose none of us get to vote also?

Gee, would you like to post a message to all of the military that are fighting in this war that I despise so much, that since they are currently tax free, their opinion doesn't count?

Think global my friend.....the world does not revolve around only us, okay?

adroomi......please quote me claiming I worship either Bush or this administration? If you cannot, you are a liar. For the record, I voted republican, straight ticket, in every election since 1984. While I disagree with certain aspects of their platform, it dwarfs the democrats in all areas. I find the democratic party to be out of touch and beyond anything I would consider rational. I fear all big government no matter who is in charge.

adroomi.......several here have engaged you. You have brushed off several questions and simply continue to make the same emotionally charged errors. Your claims about every person in the "hood" carrying guns along with children carrying guns proves this, since both are incredibly irresponsible. You have continuously stooped to ad-hominem arguments and then defend this methodology as if it were OK.

adroomi.......before we could ever engage in anything meaningful, we would need to discuss your inability to use reasoning skills properly. Your constant desire to lt your own responsibility be replaced by some kind of "common good" to be administered by "big government" only shows your true intent. I do hope that some day you are capable of understanding your dilemmas.

I'll quote myself......

"Gang members in the inner city ALL carry guns, yet they walk up to each other and shoot each other with no fear at all. Visit the inner city.....I bet most of those folks are all carrying steel, and crime is pretty low for this, right? Oh, that's right, their carrying them "illegally" so therefore they don't count."

How do you interpret this to read "children carry guns."

My arguements are clear, my thoughts are clear. I can see by your post that your attempting to put some thoughts in for me.....thanks.

I meant Stogie when I referred to someone calling me "anti-bush." Sorry, I was a bit tired and didn't make that clear enough.

I've never avoided questions that someone asked me....I think you have me confused with someone else. If I have, then please point them out and I'll answer them.

In the meantime, please start with my first post above, and if you'd like, respond. I'm ready to debate......ready, set, go!

Not that I entirely agree with Mo but there is little truth to the claim that inner city gang bangers all carry guns. I'm sure there are a few other cops in this forum that would disagree with that statement as well.

There is an elememt that used guns in their crimes. I've worked on gang task forces in L.A., the S.F Bay Area and here in Fresno. We would stumble across the few armed gang members, but a vast majority go without guns. Now you'll be more likely to find nunchucks, knives, sawed off baseball bats, pipes and chains than you would a gun.

I think you might be a little out of touch with the real situation to assume they all have guns. We treat them all as if they had guns... but fortunately they usually don't turn up.

There is truth to the statement that if you "outlaw guns..only outlaws will have guns". Don't think for a second that there are any less "assault weapons" in California several years into the ban. There are just as many. The only people impacted by the assault weapon restrictions are those who abaide by the law. If they decided to take every legally owned handgun and assault rifle away from the people who registered them...there would be no reduction in the illegally owned ones.

It would take decades to disarm the citizens of this country. But while this happens...the number of weapons available to those who care less about laws would not change. Though I've never had an armed citizen come to my aid...I'm glad good people have the right and means to protect what's theirs.

I agree there is a high number of guns in this country. A high number of gun related crimes. Per capita there is a significant reduction in gun related crimes. The numbers go up as the population increases naturally...so do auto wrecks and suicides. But the percentages per capita have decreased.

A movement to put more money in prisons to keep the dirtbags off the street and less money to try and reform them would send a better message. there are no teeth in current anti gun crime laws. We have a (supposedly) automatic 25 year enhancement for gun crimes but the dirtbags still get out in 3-5 years. Thee are no teeth. who's afraid to take a 3-5 year...all expense paid...vacation. 3 meals...workout rooms...TV...radios....friends. SH17....it you live in a roach infested slum...prison looks pretty damn good.

We have to put the punishment back into crime.

now that's a good post. I learned much, and do appreciate it. I agree, more money and tougher laws.

look adroomi,

if me calling you dude is an insult i apoligize for that. i call a lot of piople on this board dude.

calling you a ninny is not so much off the mark in my eyes, but by re reading my post i can see where it has the wrong connotation. i apoligize for calling you a ninny but will stand by the facts that your logic is flawed. i never said you shouldn't get the right to vote.

i said if you dont pay taxes you dont get to bitch about how they are spent. same applies to poeple who dont vote.

if you dont vote you dont get to bitch about the shape the government is in.

your post are very much liberal leaning and as such i have them labeled that way.

you posts have the feeling of being anti-bush, same reason i labeled you that as well.

but hear this, i am in no way an idiot.

we have differing opinions on ways to fix a problem, and both feel that our way is correct.

BTW...COPS is on tonight at 8PM. It is with Fresno PD.I don't work for them...never saw a COPS camera crew when they were here. But they spent a lot of time with them. Might be interesting to see what my neck of the woods looks like. Took them a long time to make it look like a crappy place. There are two or three really bad neighborhoods where they spent all their time. We'll see how many guns turn up on the show...it makes for exciting TV but it takes a lot of time to get good footage.

I had a camera crew ride with me several years ago. I bored the crap out of them.

Gun control in Oklahoma means using two hands.

(just to lighten the thread)

MCC