"There are several inaccurate statements in Rick's initial post in this thread. The degree of harsh invective directed at Rick by Mo and Tranny is, IMHO, however, unconscionable".

There are only a couple of posters on these boards that I have no tolerance for. Rick is one of them. SteveR, if for one second you believe he gives a damn about any of our feelings, more than his quacky agenda, then I may have to add you to that list...

Take a hike...

Oh by the way SteveR... give me one example, just one will do, where ANYONE has debated Rick with any kind of success. If you can show me that, then I will never bother Rick again...

But since you cant, I'm going to bust his chops, within the rules EVERY chance I get...

TyrannyMK would suit you better.

Steve*R

thank you for your kind words.

i would be happy to discuss with you your opinions about what i posted. they are my personal thoughts and of course are open to being corrected as far as the facts i stated.

i was hoping for other points of view like andytv whose opinion of unions was different then mine, but just as valid. we feel a different part of the elephant.

Rick,

Hey buddy at it again? Way to keep them on their toes. LOL I love how everything you post is turned to a religious fight. "If you build it. They will come" Thanks for another entertaining read.

TrannyMk,

You said... "Oh by the way SteveR... give me one example, just one will do, where ANYONE has debated Rick with any kind of success. If you can show me that, then I will never bother Rick again..."

Just because in your view, no one has had success debating with him, doesn't mean you have to be a poor sport about it and take the low ground. Perhaps it just means you should work on your debating skills and try again or you could always just choose to not respond to his post at all.

Either way, I don't think you have a chance in hades at changing Rick's views, no matter how much fire and brimstone you threaten him with. And I don't feel he is really in any way trying to change yours. How did I come to this conclusion? He has said so over and over again.

Gypsy

Rick

Why do you thank Steve R for kind words when that is not what you are fishing for? You toss crap out there to stir the pot not to gain agreement!

LMAO

Charlie

Now as to my views on Unions, I'm emotionally mixed. I come from a Union home my father was a union dock worker in Jersey most of my childhood. I am a proud member of my local CWA. But there are downsides. We are currently going thru a surplus (nice word for layoff)and of course it is based on senority. Now I have worked with most of the people in my department for 5 yrs now and I can honestly say that rank does not equal deserving. There are alot of younger people here that work circles around some people that have been here 10-20 yrs, yet they are scrambling to find a place within the company to avoid being surplused. I have watched my union keep the jobs of people who are with out work ethics and I feel personally did want the job in the first place. I also feel that weeding some of them out sooner would have avoided our current postion.

But on the other side of the fence I have watched my union keep people from being targeted for termination by management that did not agree with thier personal views ie sexual orientation, color, religious beliefs or simply because the employee refused to open their legs for the manager.

So as I stated I'm kinda mixed about the whole modern union.

GYPSY, Ricks posts take the low ground from the start. Why do you think so many people on these boards get upset with him?

It's a DAILY bombardment of crazy posts. I'm tired of it. I bet many others are too, I'm just one of the more outspoken guys.

I dont hate Rick, as a matter of fact, when he posts other normal topics, I participate in them as a nice guy. I just hate his politics.

And if you think he can get on a public forum and throw our extremely controvercial(sp) topics and not expect some heated answers, then you are not being realistic...

TrannyMK wrote: "SteveR, if for one second you believe he gives a damn about any of our feelings, more than his quacky agenda, then I may have to add you to that list..."

Please add me to your list.

Question: Why did you change your forum name from Magnafide to TrannyMK?

Mikey, dude, buddy, my friend.....

RELAX! Take a deep breath, turn on the Giants game and fire up that Padron...

My thoughts regarding this thread....

I believe in Christ...I am not a Christian (I don't really want to be associated with the hate speech they espouse)

Rick, why is it that liberals view health care as a right and not a priveledge? I am without health care right now which is a little scary, but I don't expect the government to come take care of me. I don't need them to feed me, pay my bills, put me to bed at night, frankly I want them as far away from my life as possible. You get all worked up over the patriot act but you are totally willing to turn over your medical records to the government? Not for me thanks

As for unions...they priced me out of a job. Well done! I busted my butt for that company for five years but they kept asking for more benefits, more pay, etc. and the next thing you know its "we can't afford to keep too many employees so we have to lay you off." I worked under a union for five years and I would say they are much worse than my employers in every way. They take away all incentive to work hard, promote seniority, protect lazy, dishonest workers, and make people feel safe and protected. Fact is, they are a business just like everything else and in the end, they want your money. They are a money making machine as members pour dues money in only to see that money being spent on political campaigns, or on a giant salary for the union president. Unfortunately, I am going into a career that is union as well, so in a few months, It will be more of the same.

And last...no jobs???? I have been unemployed for like six months by choice...but even in my welfare town, I see tons of opportunity for employment. There are jobs out there for people that want them and for people willing to do the work to get them. I worked hard in elementary school, junior high, high school, community college, and the university so that I could get a good job. Most of my classmates did not. It's not the republicans or the administrations, or my fault that many of these people don't have jobs. They are there to be had...you just need some sort of education to get them.

oh yeah...Rick and I disagree politically and he says much to offend, but I think he cares much more about the feelings of the people on this board than you think. Rick rarely insults people personally despite some very vicious attacks on him and his religion. He does have a quacky agenda, but then...so does everyone else on this board.

lukin wrote: "I am without health care right now which is a little scary, but I don't expect the government to come take care of me."

You certainly are correct. Having no health coverage is a scary thought. I sincerely hope you have neither accident nor illness during this period of not having health care.

You write, "I have been unemployed for like six months by choice..." I assume this is why you have no health insurance.

Even though you have chosen to remain unemployed, you could purchase individual or family coverage, but you have apparently elected not to do so. Because this is a cigar BBS, I assume you may be purchasing cigars and smoking, rather than buying health coverage. We all have our priorities.

The reality is, if tomorrow you had a serious accident that required a major hospitalization and medical treatment, you'd be relying on "the government" to provide medical care. You can call it "medical assistance" or any euphemistic term, but it's government health care, and you'll be very thankful that it's available.

For the uninsured, the emergency rooms of public hospitals have become the number one source of primary health care. Emergency rooms have the highest cost per patient treatment in all of health care. Who pays when an unemployed, uninsured worker steps off a curb and shatters an ankle? The worker with no assets or insurance? The hospital? No, my friend...the government pays and we should all be very thankful that there are government programs in place for people who are in a situation, such as you are in right now.

Unions are a lot less needed today because of laws to protect workers; and competition; but at one time they served a good purpose. To believe in Christ isn' t really the same thing as just respecting him. It is a love for him that is generated by the realization that a being all powerful was willing to sacrafice himself so that you would be spared the fate of nonexistence after your life passes. Christ would not want us to condemn those who don't believe in him but to show others by example our love and caring for each other. Like they say there is no benefit to be preaching to the choir. Christ doesn't want us to belong to a group so we can pat each other on the back because we are better than others but rather to share in our experiences and learn how we can help our fellow man. I can't find that church but i still beleive and pray daily and i hope that some day Christ touches your heart as he has mine.

lukin

we agree on many things.

we are the only civilized country that does not provide medical care for every citizen. is it a right, no, is it a privilege, yes. but it is a good thing to do for people.

the patriot act allows the government to obtain your medical records, your library records, and any personal records. you only need to be someone of interest and a judge is required to give the authorities the right to go past the fourth amendment without you even knowing it.

i agree that unions have become more then they were suppossed to be. when the union controls were taken over by gangsters, it was the pension funds that the gangsters wanted to control. they could care less about the workers. what to do about it now, i don't know.

good luck in your new career. hopefully you will be part of a better local. if you look for improvement in your life, you will generally find it.

by the way, i have no religion. i do have a quacky agenda.

it is rewarding to see this thread turned into a conversation about different point of view.

I find the concern over the Patriot Act to be quite humorous. In this information age, it is so easy to access most information about anyone, that the Patriot Act was almost irrelevant. Virtually anyone who has access to credit reporting or law enforcement or military or health care can gain entry to one data base that will lead to another and another, providing tremendous amounts of information about anyone.

If you have a person's birthdate and address, you can virtually access their entire financial data, residence history, etc....including payments to physicians and hospitals. There are a few steps in between from name, birthdate, and address, but they can easily be purchased.