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danmdevries
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#441

Well, everyone scolds me about anecdotal data not being worth much... when it shows this drug-pair working, that is. And yet when there's a single anecdotal report of it not working, suddenly that anecdotal is golden somehow? Okaaaaaay then.

All I can say is that it's reportedly working in a whole lot of other places!

We'll see what shakes out over time.
.

Pudding Mittens wrote:

I've not seen any promising results from this combo.

Tell ya what, you come do my job and take plaquenil/azith and I'll give you 2x my paycheck.

Remember, you're doing it with one mask per week even though a month ago reuse of a respirator was verboten.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#442

in other news: fo gawds sake, don't drink methanol...

more than 100 Iranians, desperate for cures, have died from ingesting methanol because someone on social media posted something about it being effective...many more severely ill...

I know, I know...they're Iranians... thin the herd ..... and all that... but c'mon people...

Pudding Mittens
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#443

"remarkable real world results"... Practically had it's own exclamation point....

victor809 wrote:

The reported results I referred to were indeed remarkable.

you're telling a dude who has actually been using this treatment and himself said it's done nothing for the patients he's seen, to be hopeful about it coming up.

victor809 wrote:

Again, no, I was not. And again, the entire and sole point was "this statement may not be universally true, we aren't sure yet".

danmdevries wrote:

I completely believe you and what you're seeing.

Your observed outcomes differ from that of others being reported from other facilities. Nobody knows why. It's a great and somewhat unnerving question. Why some places and not others?

I have all the respect in the world for what you're doing, requires balls of steel for sure.

I hope they get plentiful proper and full PPE for you guys ASAP!
.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#444

danmdevries wrote:

danm...any efforts being made by AMA or American Nurses Association, or other professional medical workers organizations to publicly demand PPE in sufficient quantities and in a timely manner so that you can safely do your work?

It's criminal that a country as wealthy and powerful as ours is letting these shortages kill patients and healthcare workers, kinda like sending soldiers to battle without body armor and helmets and weapons

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#445

It increasingly looks very much like there is, hydroxycholoroquine and azithromycin (under a doctor's discretion and control, of course).

.

Pudding Mittens wrote:

Recently, President Trump has noted the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine as treatment options for patients with Covid-19 and subsequently ordered the FDA to grant approval on the grounds of compassionate use. This term is used to enable access to certain medications that would otherwise require a lengthy approval procedure, essentially allowing physicians to use an investigational drug under a protocol that undergoes review with an opportunity to collect additional data.

Hydroxychloroquine, which is sold by Concordia Pharmaceuticals under the brand name Plaquenil, and chloroquine are oral prescription drugs that have been used for many years to prevent and treat malaria and certain inflammatory conditions. Although these agents are well-established, they possess the potential to cause numerous side effects and should be used with caution in those who are diabetic, those with neurological disorders, and those with vision disorders. Recent data highlights how hydroxychloroquine retinopathy is more common than previously reported. Other side effects include cardiomyopathy and bone marrow suppression, but these are not commonly reported. Initial in vitro studies with hydroxychloroquine have demonstrated antiviral activity using severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infected Vero cells. Additionally, in an article published in The Lancet on 19 March, the efficacy and safety of hydroxychloroquine were investigated for the treatment of pneumonia caused by the coronavirus in a pilot study of 30 patients. The initial outcome was deemed positive; however, the results showed that it had a comparable assessment of conventional treatment alone. The study prospectively observed a population of 30 patients with mild Covid-19, where hydroxychloroquine was administered at a dose of 400mg per day for five days (HCQ) and randomised against a control group. While 13 patients (86.7%) in the HCQ group cleared the virus on Day 7, 14 patients (93.3%) in the control group managed the same with conventional treatment alone. Furthermore, the median duration of hospitalisation to virus nucleic acid negative conversion was similar in both groups.

Other studies have suggested that a combination of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin may beneficial to prevent severe respiratory tract disease in those diagnosed with Covid-19. However, further data are required, as these studies were small and there is not enough evidence to convincingly implement guidance on this. Furthermore, azithromycin is associated with prolonged cardiac repolarisation and QT interval, imparting a risk of developing cardiac arrhythmias. Therefore, extra caution is required when considering this combination.

Currently, there are not enough data to support hydroxychloroquine use for Covid-19 treatment at the level of expectations set by President Trump. As such, larger and more robust randomised clinical trials are needed to inform clinical guidance on the use, dosing, or duration of hydroxychloroquine for prophylaxis or the treatment of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-data-required/

On the other hand, if things are in desperation mode?
Fuq, I don’t know.
I just read a depressing piece about how our “experts” fumbled the ball in January, and well into Feb.
](*,)

Pudding Mittens
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#446

On the other hand, if things are in desperation mode?
Fuq, I don’t know.

KingoftheCove wrote:

This is when it's really tough to be an M.D., early judgement calls like this with limited and/or contradictory data.
.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#447

You go be you puddin'... No skin off my nose.

danmdevries
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#448

delta1 wrote:

We're not union.

But even the union hospitals are failing to protect their workers. UIC and UOC in Chicago are out of PPE as well. They're offering $5k/week to come work there. But they don't have PPE.

There's nothing we can do but hope and pray. Which has about a 10% healthcare worker mortality rate looking at the data from Europe. And even that is probably doctored, since there's claims that those that got infected didn't get it at work...

Like I said before. I've written my will, I've wrote down account logins for my wife. I hope she and the boy escape unscathed. I do not expect to.

If we had the PPE, I'd be picking up extra shifts to help. But as it is, I'm only working what I'm obligated to work. Not my typical MO. I normally put in at least 12 hours OT a week during the grey months cause there's nothing else to do. Shut in at home, I'm itching to do something but I'm not walking into a battlefield in the nude until I'm forced to.

Like I said before, I am hoping that we can repurpose manufacturing efforts to protect us, WWII style, with PPE and ventilators and other equipment/supplies we need. This is not much different than going to war. This affects everyone. Nobody is getting out unscathed. I just want to live through it, but I don't know that I will.

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#449

This ^^ Is so fuqed up!

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#450

I’m trying to figure out how an old, retired consultant like me could see this coming, while our government “healthcare experts” could not?
Or, chose not to?
Or were told not to?

Doesn’t matter. Our healthcare workers are getting fuqed. Middle and lower income senior citizens are gonna get fuqed.
Many Americans will suffer in one way or another, for a longer time period, paying for the bailout.
The rich will end up richer................same old chit.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#451

it's heart breaking to watch interviews of healthcare workers, doctors and nurses, saying they are afraid to go home to their families, afraid for their lives while treating their patients...should not happen in the richest nation in the world...criminal that it does

hope someone shows a few of those interviews to Dear Leader...

I'm not religious, but I can't think of a better expression at the moment:

GOD BLESS DANM and all HIS COLLEAGUES IN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, OUR DOCTORS and NURSES

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#452

Let's not forget the janitorial staff who have to work in these conditions, handle just about everything... And for probably very little pay.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#453

and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#454

King some may have missed it some didn’t. The embargo of outward facing information from this admin is like nothing seen before.

And if the top says it’s just the flu it doesn’t matter what others think or would want to say.

The gag is real.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#455

and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans

frankj1 wrote:

And the absolute zero value, outside of entertainment, that athletes and hollywood adds.

No sports, no hollywood... no problem. See what happens if truckers, farmers and such stop working.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#456

Amen on that one.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#457

Can't disagree with that.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#458

and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans

frankj1 wrote:

And allow me to add... my wife is immigrant labor and works in the service industry (hotel on the base).

She also immigrated LEGALLY and became a citizen.

Can't understand how people are okay with illegal immigration.

8trackdisco
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#459

MACS wrote:

................. and another Amen.

The corona virus should be excused for stealthy crossing our borders. It was just looking for a better life.

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#460

teedubbya wrote:

By "healthcare experts" I was referring to the people at the top of the various government agencies who didn't have the nuts to speak out forcefully.
I know for a fact there were many people in the private sector (epidemiologists, researchers, etc.) who were alarmed very early on, and at least a few mid and lower level government types, who probably simply don't carry enough weight to have an impact.
That doesn't excuse their weakazz bosses
The message was not delivered with the proper urgency by the people at the top........imho.
I'd like to know WHY!

Fear of losing a job, probably a high paying job? Maybe they tried and were told to fuq off? Who knows.

The Chinese government did a fine job spinning their BS, which contributed greatly to this mess, but that's going to eventually unravel on them.

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