victor809
6 years ago

Victor, when you have Mencken, one of the 20th Century's greatest writers and have someone need to have Mencken's snarky humour explained, there's a serious problem.

He wrote of the founding fathers and their natural distrust of democracy:
"They realized the essential weakness of democracy, and predicted some of its worst excesses – now unhappy and inescapable realities. They warned that giving the vote to incompetent, despairing and envious people would breed demagogues to rouse and rally them, and that the whole democratic process would thus be converted into organized pillage and plunder"

These are heretical words to the true believers in the God Democracy, but as inescapably true today in this 2020 election cycle as ever.

RayR wrote:



.... So you're missing punctuation. I think. But I think you're saying you're not a proponent of democracy.

Also, you need to stop quoting people. I don't care what some political commentator has to say. It's irrelevant. If I'm having a discussion with them, then that's great. You're not Menken, or Ostowroski or whoever. Quoting someone else's political opinion is intellectually dishonest. It implies you agree with them, but gives you enough space to back away from any statement when another person points out the issues in it.
victor809
6 years ago

Yes Victor, you're starting to catch on, Shapiro is not exactly admired in libertarian circles. His neoconservative progressiveness shows through. He sometimes morphs into a sometimes libertarian just as he morphed into a sometimes Trumper. The boy is a chameleon.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/07/jack-kerwick/ben-shapiro-alt-left-celebrity-extraordinaire/ 

RayR wrote:



My "catching on" that you are using the term progressive ridiculously broadly is not a good thing.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
I've been digging professor Victor Davis Hanson, Senior fellow at the Hoover institute. Yeah his name is Victor but don't hold that against him. Dude's brilliant!
Check out his podcast, articles, books for some serious thinking. You don't have to be a con to be edified by genius.
Been wanting to quote and vouch for him for a minute. Any thoughts on this guy?
fiddler898
6 years ago
Maybe Spey wants to rename this to the RayR I Know Everything thread. Then we can submit it to The Onion. It’s become a parody of itself.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
6 years ago

Yes Victor, you're starting to catch on, Shapiro is not exactly admired in libertarian circles. His neoconservative progressiveness shows through. He sometimes morphs into a sometimes libertarian just as he morphed into a sometimes Trumper. The boy is a chameleon.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/07/jack-kerwick/ben-shapiro-alt-left-celebrity-extraordinaire/ 

RayR wrote:



So you're saying it's only ok to totally agree with someone, otherwise you must demonize them?

I would hope that's not what you mean, but that's the way it comes off.
victor809
6 years ago

I've been digging professor Victor Davis Hanson, Senior fellow at the Hoover institute. Yeah his name is Victor but don't hold that against him. Dude's brilliant!
Check out his podcast, articles, books for some serious thinking. You don't have to be a con to be edified by genius.
Been wanting to quote and vouch for him for a minute. Any thoughts on this guy?

Dg west deptford wrote:



Pretty sure RayRay thinks he's a progressive.

Pretty sure RayRay thinks you're a progressive.

but I'm just playing the odds at this point.
victor809
6 years ago

I've been digging professor Victor Davis Hanson, Senior fellow at the Hoover institute. Yeah his name is Victor but don't hold that against him. Dude's brilliant!
Check out his podcast, articles, books for some serious thinking. You don't have to be a con to be edified by genius.
Been wanting to quote and vouch for him for a minute. Any thoughts on this guy?

Dg west deptford wrote:



Ok I looked this victor guy up. He sounds terrible.
He wrote the book The Case for Trump?
He apparently also pretended to have a "talk" with his kids about needing to be careful of black people in the inner city?

Why would you think this is a "brilliant" person?

Dg west deptford
6 years ago
I knew I could count on you Vic. I haven't vetted that one but I accept it because I trust you for the moment. That said I'm sure there's some brilliant minds you enjoy that have offended in some word or deed. Even Clinton is off the #metoo cancel list in some circles
victor809
6 years ago

I knew I could count on you Vic. I haven't vetted that one but I accept it because I trust you for the moment. That said I'm sure there's some brilliant minds you enjoy that have offended in some word or deed. Even Clinton is off the #metoo cancel list in some circles

Dg west deptford wrote:



I'm fine with disagreeing with people on some things.

But to feel so strongly about needing to have trump as president as to write an entire book? Nah.
And the context on the letter was as a response to an actual issue black parents have to have with their children. His response screams petty and self serving. I have trouble believing that's the product of a brilliant mind.

Interestingly, he apparently diverges from Jared Diamond in one of his more popular books. I've never read Hansen's Carnage and Culture, but I have read Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel.... the two books apparently do not have complementary theories.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
I'll look into it thanks.
What's your thoughts on governmental penalties on gathering together?
Or do only violent Marxist anarchists get that right?
There's actually churches and synagogues, citizens...facing an expensive question of what our constitution reads on the matter of our first amendment.
That's not a maga thing that's a S.O.S. thing.
I keep hearing about our souls from DNC speakers
tonygraz
6 years ago
I think all you religious people should crowd into churches. God will protect you and trump will stand behind you - far behind you. Covid is a hoax- go to church and sing as loud as you can.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
6 years ago
Oh, and leave the masks, those won't be necessary where you're going.... muhHhHAHhhAHhahhahHahahAhA
victor809
6 years ago

I'll look into it thanks.
What's your thoughts on governmental penalties on gathering together?
Or do only violent Marxist anarchists get that right?
There's actually churches and synagogues, citizens...facing an expensive question of what our constitution reads on the matter of our first amendment.
That's not a maga thing that's a S.O.S. thing.
I keep hearing about our souls from DNC speakers

Dg west deptford wrote:


There isn't a great answer.
But it also isn't really a religion question.

I mean... the government isn't stopping anyone from praying. or from having zoom church. A lot of other organizations which rely on large group gatherings have been improvising... (conventions, schools etc). And as long as a church is treated in the same manner as other gatherings, I'm not sure I see a problem. So maybe if churches held their sermons outside with everyone wearing masks.

RayR
6 years ago

Pretty sure RayRay thinks he's a progressive.

Pretty sure RayRay thinks you're a progressive.

but I'm just playing the odds at this point.

victor809 wrote:



Right again Victor. You see I don't as other libertarians and traditional conservatives pigeon hole people into simple caricatures. Progressivism has to be viewed broadly because it's a state of mind so you shouldn't be surprised when even a conservative criticizes another conservative, especially when they have that distasteful neoconservative streak like the previously mentioned Ben Shapiro. Their uber-partisan minds can go off into a parallel universe where their hatred for the left allows them to construct unhinged bizarre historical connections like trying to create a direct lineage of the Confederacy to the modern Democratic Party. Really crazy stuff and so progressive.
Paul Gottfried who is now Editor in Chief of Chronicles Magazine here takes on the "The Two Hansons" in a piece he wrote for LRC, as he starts off "It has long been apparent to me that there are two Victor Davis Hanson, a very perceptive observer of current events and a historian with large axes to grind...
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/paul-gottfried/comparisons-ii/ 

And more Gottfried on Hanson and his "half-truths and fictions" about European history.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/07/paul-gottfried/686477-2/ 
tonygraz
6 years ago
Maybe you should listen to Gilbert Godfried instead.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
6 years ago

Right again Victor. You see I don't as other libertarians and traditional conservatives pigeon hole people into simple caricatures. Progressivism has to be viewed broadly because it's a state of mind so you shouldn't be surprised when even a conservative criticizes another conservative, especially when they have that distasteful neoconservative streak like the previously mentioned Ben Shapiro. Their uber-partisan minds can go off into a parallel universe where their hatred for the left allows them to construct unhinged bizarre historical connections like trying to create a direct lineage of the Confederacy to the modern Democratic Party. Really crazy stuff and so progressive.
Paul Gottfried who is now Editor in Chief of Chronicles Magazine here takes on the "The Two Hansons" in a piece he wrote for LRC, as he starts off "It has long been apparent to me that there are two Victor Davis Hanson, a very perceptive observer of current events and a historian with large axes to grind...
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/paul-gottfried/comparisons-ii/ 

And more Gottfried on Hanson and his "half-truths and fictions" about European history.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/07/paul-gottfried/686477-2/ 

RayR wrote:



I give up... I can't continue on with someone that thinks everyone is a progressive, obviously hates progressives... and then claims to be the reasonable one who listens to people.

I think this is what happens when grey matter collapses. We're witnessing Hawking Radiation.
delta1
6 years ago
especially when he critiques people who "pigeon hole people into simple caricatures" and fails to see that quality in his own writing
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
Could be pearls from a swine but... Someone^ mentioned God-
I believe that what happens in the ten days between September 18th and 28th will be a determining factor in the future of our nation. Feast of Trumpets to Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). Ten days of prayer for our nation. Ten days of confessing our sin as a nation. Ten days of repentance before our God and Father.

Speaking of Great Holidays- Anyone else planning on keeping the mitzvah of Sukkot?
Best holiday of em all!
We build a mean sukkah! Lost the weeping willow so not sure what we're gonna do for a roof this year but The Lord has always provided Himself a covering
It's Jersey not Jerusalem but All are welcome for joy and herfing in our tabernacle
frankj1
6 years ago

Could be pearls from a swine but... Someone^ mentioned God-
I believe that what happens in the ten days between September 18th and 28th will be a determining factor in the future of our nation. Feast of Trumpets to Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). Ten days of prayer for our nation. Ten days of confessing our sin as a nation. Ten days of repentance before our God and Father.

Speaking of Great Holidays- Anyone else planning on keeping the mitzvah of Sukkot?
Best holiday of em all!
We build a mean sukkah! Lost the weeping willow so not sure what we're gonna do for a roof this year but The Lord has always provided Himself a covering
It's Jersey not Jerusalem but All are welcome for joy and herfing in our tabernacle

Dg west deptford wrote:


more important and far more difficult than begging and praying for forgiveness (so easy when facing the fear of death) and promising to be soooo good next year...

is forgiving, truly and deeply and totally purging ourselves of those feelings we harbor toward those that have done wrong by us.

That is the real challenge of the Days of Awe, those ten days of introspection. Use them wisely, if you truly believe.

You can confess almost every day of the year. The Ten Days are different. Don't confuse them with your ideas for the nation to repent.

Shalom.
tonygraz
6 years ago
Awe ! Hope that helps, but this guy talking about sukk ot worries me. I wonder if he has any repentance signs.
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