ZRX1200
6 years ago
Rittenhouse had rendered aid earlier that night to protesters and got pepper sprayed for his efforts (and took no steps). He was also “trained” by his local junior officer 👮‍♀️ program.

What gun charge is he going to get? If the gun was given to him it’s legal (from a relative).

“ Kyle Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old militia member who has been arrested and is facing a homicide charge in the matter, was not old enough to legally carry the assault-style rifle he had, according to statutes, which say anyone under 18 who "goes armed" with any deadly weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. John Monroe, a lawyer who specializes in gun rights cases, believes an exception for rifles and shotguns, intended to allow people age 16 and 17 to hunt, could apply.”

IMO his decision to leave his state and go there isn’t one I’d make, but it’s not a reason to lynch him with opinion and publicity.

He’ll get off if they don’t drop charges of Homicide and they’ll probably try to stick him with the wreck less endangerment.
Abrignac
6 years ago

The kid went hunting. Anyone who defends this turn in your humanity card, it has expired.

fiddler898 wrote:



I’ll defend anyone’s Constitutional rights. All of them. Anything less is IMHO un-Americans. It’s a problem so be it.
Abrignac
6 years ago

I have followed his trevails in the local paper and on local tv news Zimmerman is one lucky idiot.

rfenst wrote:



That’s an understatement!
Abrignac
6 years ago

I read it and still ask the question, as most professional law enforcement personnel should...why didn't they arrest Rittenhouse?

the Sheriff's defense of his troops was very weak...he could muster only "a shooting with all the people shouting and hollering is a confusing event where officers develop tunnel vision"...he also said he didn't want citizens to bring guns to protests, because police are trained to deal with them, and that this is what they didn't want to happen...

if his folks were highly trained, why did they not arrest Rittenhouse when he was still on scene, and apparently willing to surrender?

police officers are trained to make rational decisions under high stress situations...you remember the scenario training, where people were brought in to play parts of suspects, victims, bystanders and plainclothes cops, etc. in various simulated criminal situations in locations with buildings and other props that made the circumstances as real as possible...they tried to make each scenario real life-like, and sometimes very chaotic and very confusing to determine a recruit's ability to think and act under high stress...the "shoot - don't shoot" ones were nerve wracking...but the priority was to ID the shooter first

it is not surprising, then, that Sheriff Beth and the Kenosha Police Chief Miskinin, who blamed the shooting on the curfew violators, have both been asked to resign and have done so...

to excuse poor law enforcement performance perpetuates the problem of inadequate policing and fuels the demands for reform.


edit: Sheriff Beth and Chief Miskinin have not resigned, and county and city officials have not asked them to...apologies for this mistake

delta1 wrote:



I don’t know, but you have a habit of Monday morning quarterbacking any perceived transgression you see. You seem make knee jerk responses in matters you deem political. But, I assure you the sky is not falling.

I’d like to think there was chaos and they were trying to get control of a volatile situation and they took whatever information they had at time at face value. Then I’d like think once detectives were assigned they found probable cause to charge him.

Conspiracy vs fact finding. I’ll defer to the later.
victor809
6 years ago

I’ll defend anyone’s Constitutional rights. All of them. Anything less is IMHO un-Americans. It’s a problem so be it.

Abrignac wrote:



Didn't know we have a constitutional right to hunt american citizens. Is that like the 31st or something?
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
6 years ago
I just read it.

So armed militia members go to a protest who's views they don't agree with. Just by that sentiment alone, you know that raises the percentage probability for conflict.

A kid who arguably shouldn't even have been there, (this ain't the 1500s)... gets in an altercation and shoots somebody.

This is just a mess of a situation, mainly because there's really not much that can be done except wreck a kid's life for no reason (he shouldn't have been there).
Krazeehorse
6 years ago
I agree. There are only a couple reasons that I could possibly justify his being there, primarily protecting family or friends' property. And even I would have to think long and hard before I decided to shoot someone to protect my own personal property. But I won't judge someone who does.
Abrignac
6 years ago

Didn't know we have a constitutional right to hunt american citizens. Is that like the 31st or something?

victor809 wrote:



[starfish]
delta1
6 years ago

I don’t know, but you have a habit of Monday morning quarterbacking any perceived transgression you see. You seem make knee jerk responses in matters you deem political. But, I assure you the sky is not falling.

I’d like to think there was chaos and they were trying to get control of a volatile situation and they took whatever information they had at time at face value. Then I’d like think once detectives were assigned they found probable cause to charge him.

Conspiracy vs fact finding. I’ll defer to the later.

Abrignac wrote:



we should not accept unprofessional performance from a cop, who maybe shouldn't be a cop, and blame the circumstances of the job being too difficult...


we should expect and demand a high level of professionalism from those to whom we entrust our safety
ZRX1200
6 years ago
You entrust the police for your safety???

LMAO......I entrust them to collect the Kings revenue and to seize assets through forfeiture, and respond to crime by writing reports and possibly writing more tickets for that based off of projected gain from said ticket. In some cases like theft they won’t even follow up or call back because the paperwork isn’t worth their time.

Peace officers no longer exist.

The SCOTUS decided they have no constitutional duty to protect you.

Good luck with that.

P.S I don’t hate cops, I respect oath keepers.
delta1
6 years ago
that was a general statement about the role that we, as an entire nation, have accorded our law enforcement personnel...as a former law enforcement officer, I tried to create a sense of trust among and between my officers and the communities we served...so yes, we do need to have trust if we hope to succeed in doing our jobs...


individual citizen's thoughts about their purpose and role may differ, and that is their prerogative, but in reality, providing public safety services is what they're being paid to do...just as Fire Department personnel and EMT have specific public safety responsibilities...

the manner in which they each perform their responsibilities and their effectiveness, as you imply, is subject to interpretation...there are some good departments and some bad ones, but they both are held to similar standards...

you backing the "defund" movement?
DrafterX
6 years ago
I heard Biden is.... 😟
delta1
6 years ago
victor809
6 years ago



you backing the "defund" movement?

delta1 wrote:



Ironically it was the 2nd amendmenters here who convinced me that the defund movement wasn't nearly as crazy as it sounded at first.
ZRX1200
6 years ago
Not backing defund other than fixing PERS and militarization.

I want to see civil asset forfeiture reform (I’m ok with use for restitution to damaged parties after due process) and reforming escalation of force.

Where you say “trust” I say “Expect”
Abrignac
6 years ago

we should not accept unprofessional performance from a cop, who maybe shouldn't be a cop, and blame the circumstances of the job being too difficult...


we should expect and demand a high level of professionalism from those to whom we entrust our safety

delta1 wrote:



So without any information you have deduced that the officers on the scene were unprofessional. What facts do you have to support such an accusation?

BTW, it’s knee jerk reactions like this that contribute to the problem instead of solving it.
DrMaddVibe
6 years ago

nuh uhh

delta1 wrote:



https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2020/08/26/joe-biden-flips-defund-police-how-can-we-trust-him/3424969001/ 

Depends on the crowd and depends on the day...maybe it's because he's not fully aware of where he is, what he had for breakfast or if he's pissed himself.
delta1
6 years ago
we have agreement on those specific areas...we should never allow a "profit motive" to become a consideration in police actions, which civil forfeiture laws inject...totally unconstitutional method that allows agents of the state (police) to seize private property, violating the 14th amendment...

PERS, the acronym for publicly funded police pension systems, is slowly going through some changes, but the very powerful police unions are opposing any changes vehemently...3% at 50 years old is an overly generous and outdated defined benefit model that is based on faulty life expectancy charts...police unions representing police officers have successfully written so many labor laws that most other non-law enforcement unions now just ask for stuff police officers have...the Police Officer's Bill of Rights and pro-police labor laws are anachronisms that grew from an earlier time in the past century when few people wanted to be police officers and many were viewed as "Barney Fife" types who could and would be taken advantage of by slick local politicians...

escalation of force, in policy and principle, is sound...the breakdown typically occurs at the individual officer levels, and as more and more officers violate that policy/principle without adverse consequences, there is no longer a policy...but we can't trust or expect our police departments to police themselves...

so we need outside oversight of police departments, to reform, not defund, to ensure that expectations are met so the trust can be rebuilt...

another area where we need reform is in the area of expected services...we are asking our police officers to do many things for which they have not been trained...for example: dealing with mentally ill and drug abusers should not be solely a police function
DrafterX
6 years ago
who we gonna get to shoot them then..?? 😕
delta1
6 years ago

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2020/08/26/joe-biden-flips-defund-police-how-can-we-trust-him/3424969001/

Depends on the crowd and depends on the day...maybe it's because he's not fully aware of where he is, what he had for breakfast or if he's pissed himself.

DrMaddVibe wrote:




an opinion piece that parses the meaning of "redirect" and "defund"...

both words have various meanings, and it is nearly pointless to paint anyone with a broad brush who utters them...it is better to ask what they mean and provide some examples when they use those words to define their position about police budgets...
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