RayR
5 years ago

Nonsense. All that 'states rights' rhetoric basically boils down to the Confederate states' determination to continue the enslavement of Africans. And you would see that if you wanted to. But you don't.

borndead1 wrote:



You ignore the fact that there was slavery in the Union, 8 slave states in fact still in the Union after the first 7 states seceded. and nobody in those states seceded because they felt threatened that Lincoln was going to free the slaves. He assured them that he couldn't because he had no constitutional authority to do so.
Even the upper Southern States of Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas were opposed to secession and only joined the Confederacy after President Lincoln called for 75,000 troops to march through their states to invade the seven Gulf states, something that they rightfully regarded as an unconscionable treasonous act under the Constitution.
You link to 5 declarations of causes statements at the American Battlefield Trust where only 4 of the first seven seceding states issued formal statements citing slavery as a prime reason for secession.
You can use dumbed-down history to claim that everything was about slavery and only slavery, that Righteous Cause Myth or you can do the hard work and learn something about the economics and political maneuvering of the sectional interests.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/the-economy-stupid/ 

DrMaddVibe
5 years ago

Nonsense. All that 'states rights' rhetoric basically boils down to the Confederate states' determination to continue the enslavement of Africans. And you would see that if you wanted to. But you don't.

borndead1 wrote:




We've had countless conversations here and opened many eyes to the racist pole in the Confederacy spine. The same spine that birthed the KKK. The very same political party spine that approved of sedition and seperation from the United States of America. The DNC. It is without mistake that I use the quote "The DNC is a terrorist organization" with the veracity it deserves. They earned it!

Let's not dance around their hatred any more. Let's put an arrow into the heart of Darkness shall we?

Delivered by the Vice-President of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens!

https://www.csaconstitution.com/p/alexander-h.html [/i][/color]

We're not talking about heritage, history or legacy with this.

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. [Applause.] This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It is so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North who still cling to these errors with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind; from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is, forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics: their conclusions are right if their premises are. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights, with the white man.... I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the Northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery; that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle-a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of man. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds we should succeed, and that he and his associates in their crusade against our institutions would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as well as in physics and mechanics, I admitted, but told him it was he and those acting with him who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal."

What a fine leader the Democrats elected eh?

Even after the Civil War too!

"In 1866, Stephens was elected to the United States Senate by the first legislature convened under the new Georgia State Constitution, but was not allowed to take his seat because of restrictions on former Confederates. He published a U.S. history in 1868–1870, laying out the Lost Cause of the Confederacy in his view: that secession was legal, and the attacks from the North aggression. The thrust of his legal argument was rejected by the Supreme Court in the 1869 case Texas vs. White, ruling secession to be unconstitutional.

In 1873, Stephens was elected to the United States House of Representatives as a Democrat from the 8th District to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Ambrose R. Wright. He was re-elected to the 8th District as an Independent Democrat in 1874, 1876, and 1878, and as a Democrat again in 1880.[28] He described himself, on the title page of the 1876 edition of his Compendium, as "Professor Elect of History and Political Science at the University of Georgia". He served in the 43rd through 47th Congresses, from December 1, 1873, until his resignation on November 4, 1882. On that date, he was elected and took office as governor of Georgia.[29] His tenure as governor proved brief; Stephens died on March 4, 1883, four months after taking office.[30]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_H._Stephens#Later_life 


Anyone STILL confused on this matter?
tonygraz
5 years ago
Just you and those who find any sense of reality in what you say.
DrMaddVibe
5 years ago

Just you and those who find any sense of reality in what you say.

tonygraz wrote:



Reality?

Oh sage DNC committed believer...PLEASE tell me where I was wrong with the above post.
RayR
5 years ago
What does the DNC have to do with the Confederacy or any of this? The DNC didn't exist then and today they are nothing more than a proponent of Marxism.

Alexander Stephens said nothing different from what Lincoln said. They were white supremacists of different stripes.
Cherry-picking quotes from one side doesn't prove the other side was any more morally superior or inferior.
Lincoln differed only from Stephens in that had the lawyer's ability to speak out of both sides of his mouth depending on the audience.

A private letter sent from Abraham Lincoln to Alexander Stephens-Vice President of the Confederacy. on Dec. 22, 1860.

For your own eye only

Hon. A. H. Stephens-

My dear Sir

Your obliging answer to my short note is just received, and for which please accept my thanks. I fully appreciate the present peril the country is in, and the weight of responsibility on me.

Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly, or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears.

The South would be in no more danger in this respect, than it was in the days of Washington. I suppose, however, this does not meet the case. You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; while we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us.

Yours very truly

A. LINCOLN



So there you have it, the private Lincoln.

On one side, a portion of the white supremacist aristocratic slave owner class represented by Stephens which incidentally was present both in the South, and the North wanted to preserve the institution and not opposed to it being extended.

On the other side, a portion of the white supremacist Northern corporate class represented here by "Free Soiler" Lincoln only thought slavery should be restricted. The racist pole in the Union spine. Slavery was only wrong to them in that black folks would exist among them, something that many Republicans clearly said often publically and something they sincerely wanted to suppress, especially in the new territories, dreams of whitety NIMBY-land!
Northern Republicans did all they could to suppress free blacks up north too, Even in the land of Lincoln Illinois they made it illegal for free blacks to move there, and those that did live there were denied equal civil rights, including the right to vote. Jim Crow was born in the North.

Real abolitionists on the other hand disliked both sides.
https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/abraham-lincoln-abolitionists 

Actually, real abolitionists were in favor of the secession of slave states before the war.
https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/abolitionists-right-secession 



DrMaddVibe
5 years ago

What does the DNC have to do with the Confederacy or any of this? The DNC didn't exist then and today they are nothing more than a proponent of Marxism.

RayR wrote:



The Democrat party has been around since the 1820's. That just a bit before the Civil War.
RayR
5 years ago

The Democrat party has been around since the 1820's. That just a bit before the Civil War.

DrMaddVibe wrote:



Just because the name is the same does not equate to them being the same party throughout time at all.
The Jeffersonian Democratc Party was never anything like the horrid Party of Marx it had transformed into during the Progressive Era after the last Jeffersonian Democrat President Grover Cleveland.
I know the neocons play that game to fool conservative types into believing that the Democrats have always been the same and that they the neoconservatives are the true Republican opposition to the left, but you don't have to play along. The neocons are liars and thieves and in no way conservative or remotely libertarian, they and the leftists are two sides of the same coin.
DrMaddVibe
5 years ago

Just because the name is the same does not equate to them being the same party throughout time at all.
The Jeffersonian Democratc Party was never anything like the horrid Party of Marx it had transformed into during the Progressive Era after the last Jeffersonian Democrat President Grover Cleveland.
I know the neocons play that game to fool conservative types into believing that the Democrats have always been the same and that they the neoconservatives are the true Republican opposition to the left, but you don't have to play along. The neocons are liars and thieves and in no way conservative or remotely libertarian, they and the leftists are two sides of the same coin.

RayR wrote:



Yeah it really does Ray.

A tiger doesn't change it's stripes. Follow the ball..A party steeped in the South...Ready to break up a nation over slavery...gets it's proverbial ass kicked for the world to see. A terrorist group is birthed from the ashes of defeat to hang black Americans and to make them tow their line even though they lost it all...very same party lets Hitler round up Jews despite intelligence stating they were committing genocide and let it go on...a party that let Pearl Harbor get destroyed despite advanced cables stating Japan was going to attack and used it to round up and arrest Asians...a party that wouldn't allow black children to go to school despite laws stating that they had every right to do so...a party that filibustered the Civil Rights Act because they still didn't want blacks to have full inclusion in society despite every legal reason to not deny them...a political party that enacted crime bills so tight that it practically ripped apart every black family in America today...a party that was more interested in providing cover for a degenerate they allowed sexual abuse, plotted bombings and 2 mass genocides so Willie could get his d!ck sucked!...that that party is the DNC. Don't give me your thin sliced watered down versions or examples from the crypts.

I'm done reasoning with them because I clearly see them for what they are. You want to microblade the hairs...go at it. Aim big...hit big...that's the way the drill sergeants trained me. Look at not only what the party has done the last 5 years but look what they've done just recently. The ones that are still carrying the water...look at them...you know who and what they are. They think they've done something really great with a new holiday...can't wait to hear the themed songs for that!
RayR
5 years ago
WOW DMV! You've really drunk the kool-aid deep, even with some progressive bits floating about.😞

Can you also do the same for the Republican Party, they were the original big-government party that dismantled the original constitutional federal republic, repudiated the principles of the American Revolution which paved the way for the progressives on both the right and the left to expand unconstitutional federal powers even further still to this day so that now so-called Republican conservatives can bit*ch about all the socialism, lying, cheating, corruption, and stuff.
I'm done reasoning with both sides of the chit show because I clearly see them for what they are and what they've done to screw up America.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
5 years ago
Good, good!!!

Feel your anger, let your hatred guide you!

- Palpatine

Or he said something like that anyway.
HockeyDad
5 years ago
Close enough for government work.
RayR
5 years ago

Good, good!!!

Feel your anger, let your hatred guide you!

- Palpatine

Or he said something like that anyway.

bgz wrote:



Dem the facts son even if you don't grasp them or rely instead on partisan myths.
Welcoming all haters to prove I'm wrong.😴
MACS
5 years ago

OK...that is correct...but I think we part ways where we see who is afflicted by this elusive thing...

case in point: current push nationwide by GOP to suppress the vote is reminiscent of the pre-and Civil Rights Era tactics...

delta1 wrote:



Can you give an actual example on how the "GOP" is trying to suppress any voting? Tangible evidence. Not just... they want to require ID (which everyone has or can easily get).
HockeyDad
5 years ago

they want to require ID (which everyone has or can easily get).

MACS wrote:



Democrats do not believe blacks are smart enough or capable enough to get a government ID or drivers license.
RayR
5 years ago
Don't ya get it boys! Proving their identity is equivalent to a Jim Crow poll tax. Them poh Dem voters aren't even literate enough to sign their own names other than scratching a big fat X. They need to be instructed which righteous name on the ballot to vote for. That's duhmacacy!
RayR
5 years ago
All you morons who cheered the mobs on with their defacing and removal of Confederate monuments and symbols were warned what would happen, the object of the Marxist Cultural Revolution was to erase history itself so they could rewrite it to push their heinous agenda. They weren't going to stop, but you didn't listen to the warnings.[frypan] What's next...book burning?

Communist New York Dicktator Bill de Blasio has bowed to the chanting of his unwashed Marxist mob and the revolution continues as:

Now Teddy Roosevelt Gets Canceled
A statue of America’s 26th President will come down in New York City.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/teddy-roosevelt-gets-canceled-11592867171 

I'm no fan of Teddy Roosevelt by any stretch of the imagination because he clearly sucked as POTUS and was mentally deranged to boot. But there was once a time when he was a progressive icon on both the left and the right, but now the mob cometh for him, and that ridiculous statue in front of the Museum of Natural History in New York City has been deemed...wait for it—RACIST!
ZRX1200
5 years ago
Well they get to decide who’s black by who they vote for….
HockeyDad
5 years ago

All you morons who cheered the mobs on with their defacing and removal of Confederate monuments and symbols were warned what would happen, the object of the Marxist Cultural Revolution was to erase history itself so they could rewrite it to push their heinous agenda. They weren't going to stop, but you didn't listen to the warnings.[frypan] What's next...book burning?

Communist New York Dicktator Bill de Blasio has bowed to the chanting of his unwashed Marxist mob and the revolution continues as:

Now Teddy Roosevelt Gets Canceled
A statue of America’s 26th President will come down in New York City.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/teddy-roosevelt-gets-canceled-11592867171 

I'm no fan of Teddy Roosevelt by any stretch of the imagination because he clearly sucked as POTUS and was mentally deranged to boot. But there was once a time when he was a progressive icon on both the left and the right, but now the mob cometh for him, and that ridiculous statue in front of the Museum of Natural History in New York City has been deemed...wait for it—RACIST!

RayR wrote:



This sucks for Robin Williams.
ZRX1200
5 years ago
I’ll take “What’s short, hairy, and we’ll hung” for $800 Alex…..
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