You really should watch a video on the Xtreme defender ammo….

Federal HST is a standard to weigh things against for sure.

Most law enforcement rounds though inherently are designed for more penetration due to barriers like windshields.something to think about as a civilian that isn’t going to have qualified immunity for secondary penetration.

[quote=ZRX1200]You really should watch a video on the Xtreme defender ammo….

Federal HST is a standard to weigh things against for sure.

Most law enforcement rounds though inherently are designed for more penetration due to barriers like windshields.something to think about as a civilian that isn’t going to have qualified immunity for secondary penetration.[/quote]

Though I agree that penetration is a factor when an agency chooses a standard duty round, it has little if anything to do with penetration through inanimate objects. What is considered is penetration through what is considered a reasonable level of clothing.

As it were, most of the ammunition labeled for LEO use has very similar performance standards. At that point, the final decision is mostly based on price per round. There is good reason for this.

The last time I shot the P.O.S.T. course it consisted of 60 rounds. We practiced with FMJ ammo, but for qualifying we shot duty ammo. For my agency, that meant approximately 600 officers x 60 rounds = 36,000 rounds a year to shoot the P.O.S.T course. Add to that, each officer carried at least 52 rounds (3 x 17 round magazines + 1 in the pipe) that's an additional 31,200 rounds. On top of that most officers had 2 or 3 additional backup magazines in case the chit hit the fan. All told, I'd guess at any given time there were upwards of 90,000 duty rounds accounted for.

On the other hand, most officers went to the range at least once every 2-3 months. Many at least once a month. A good estimate of training rounds expended annually would be in the 250,000 - 300,00 range.

As a former LEO, I can say that unequivocally they are not trained to take penetration through barriers into account in terms of stopping a threat. The opposite is true. Let me explain.

LEO's are trained to fully account for every round from the time the projectile leaves the muzzle of their firearm until it has expended 100% of its muzzle energy and is lying harmlessly on the ground or inside an intended target. As such, a properly trained LEO is going to avoid firing his weapon towards any obstruction that could potentially alter the direction of flight in such a way as to render the trajectory of the projectile unpredictable. A windshield, especially with its sloping orientation, is a prime example of an obstruction that could alter the trajectory of said projectile.

The reason for this is obvious. Qualified immunity or not, LEO's are trained to prevent harm to third party bystanders. This dovetails with the idea that not only do LEO's Serve, but they also Protect.

With that said, I have two very good friends who during the course of their service shot perpetrators through windshields. In both cases they were doing so to prevent a perpetrator from taking a human life. In both cases, the rounds did in fact penetrate the windshield and both perps died.

[quote=ZRX1200]You really should watch a video on the Xtreme defender ammo….

Federal HST is a standard to weigh things against for sure.

Most law enforcement rounds though inherently are designed for more penetration due to barriers like windshields.something to think about as a civilian that isn’t going to have qualified immunity for secondary penetration.[/quote]



Compared to what? 19" of penetration? No expansion, small wound channel.


Shooting through a sheet of plywood is a dumb test. Doesn't in any way represent a real-world scenario.

So far, not impressed. More of a solution in search of a problem if you ask me. Both tests ignore that fact that 98.2% of all deadly force encounters take place with 7 yards or less distance between the combatants. At that distance, very little degradation in muzzle velocity occurs. In very few cases will one find that bullets passed through anything but flesh and clothing. But charlatans are always looking for a way to skew actual scenarios to create a market where one really doesn't exist.

I'll look at more later. On my way to meet the ex to take daughter to Dr.

Can’t miss

https://shop.tactical ****.com/i-w-a-international-ml37-smooth-bore-flare-launcher-full-kit-w-telescopic-stock-comes-with-3-rounds-of-your-choice

Good luck with that! Hope the daughter is ok.

[quote=ZRX1200]Good luck with that! Hope the daughter is ok.[/quote]

About as much fun as shooting monkeys in a barrel. She was fine. Had to have an ultrasound done. Came back negative. So that was a positive.

Listen to the FBI's #1 wanted innocent guy from 2012-16...

Buy her the Beretta APX-A1 8 SHOT MICRO compact...
Comes with 3 magazines...
( Mac's calls them "clips", he's uninformed)

I know my sheeeeet mofo....

Clandestine Jonsie....
Master of evasion and very important historic friends...
On 5 continents...
(Carlos was an amateur)

^ you know how much easier parts are for the G42?

Glocks are the Honda civic of the pistol world, parts are everywhere.

I shoot the Buck out of Wolf ammo, in my Mak 90, at the range.
That said, I use a Judge for a bedside weapon, 3" PDX1. Bullpup 12 guage, behind the bedroom door. 00Buck, staggered with slugs. Beyond that, becomes offensive, as opposed to defensive, and legality changes.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)🍺

[quote=Homebrew]I shoot the Buck out of Wolf ammo, in my Mak 90, at the range.
That said, I use a Judge for a bedside weapon, 3" PDX1. Bullpup 12 guage, behind the bedroom door. 00Buck, staggered with slugs. Beyond that, becomes offensive, as opposed to defensive, and legality changes.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)🍺 [/quote]

Nothing a wrong with using Wolf at the range. Just wouldn’t count on it to keep me alive. On the other hand, a 12 gauge loaded with 000 buck makes for an excellent home defense solution.

I’ve shot a lot of Wolf and Tula

I’d have zero issues trusting it in my 7.62x39 AR for defense or an extended encounter.the tan camo boxes of hollow points are great.

That said on a 9mm I would be much more concerned with a case hanging up ejection.