In this instance, the site that Hog posted is not some "ultra-right" stuff, but a site that de-bunks or confirms various urban tales ... it confirms the story of Jane Fonda (who did not just push free speech to the limit, but was clearly was guilty of treason when she went to North Vietnam at the height of the war, posed with the enemy (see picture of same in the site Hog posted) and made publinc statements in Hanoi that the US military were war criminals ... whatever your political persuasion, she was guilty of treason as defined and should have been put in prison ... the site Hog posted explains clearly why that didn't happen (the Nixon admininstration's pre-occupation with defending his defensless actions following the Watergate break-in) ... Sean Penn, Barbra Streisand, Alec Baldwin and others are pushing free speech to the limit ... if they or others in the public eye who plainly go beyond free speech and offer aid and comfort to the enemy should be charged, convicted and imprisoned ... period.
What I meant to be the main point of my initial post in this thread has been lost in this fuss about treason, however. And that point is, I don't understand those citizens of this country who are apparently so politically against the current administration, that they are willing to overlook clear facts regarding the nature of our proclaimed enemyies ... I don't understand the reluctance to take action when action is so clearly warranted, simply because our leaders are of a political party they won't vote for ... I didn't vote for Bill Clinton in either '92 or '96, but was entirely supportive of his taking action against Bin Laden at the time he did (even though that action was pathetically weak, inept and ineffective).
I was not alive during the 30's when Hitler rose to power, but am able to read about and understand that there were citizens of this country who falsely believed that "Fortress America" was not being threatened by his violating international treaties against buildup of the German war capabilities. I know that France was then, as now, against taking action even though it was their next door neighbor who posed the threat and I know we bailed their ass out after Hitlers armies overran them and made Paris a temporarily German city. I know that England's Neville Chamberlain led a pacifistic movement that postponed war with Germany by caving into territorial demands Hitler made ... and I know that Hitler, like Saddam, was entirely willing to slaughter great numbers of his own country's citizens for personal reasons ... hindsight regarding Hitler is now 20-20 and everyone speaks of him as an insane megalomaniac ... for some reason, vast numbers have yet to develop that 20-20 vision about Saddam and somehow believe he can be appeased and co-existed with ... as has so often quoted, those who cannot learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
I know too that their current posture has more to do with what they perceive to be their economic good (they're owed huge sums by Saddam in foreign trade right now which they're afraid they won't collect on if he's deposed) and by thier self-view that they are going to evolve into the European super power and rival the US in world clout (but see that evolution as being muted or even diminished by a successful US effort in the middle east).
Saddam is counting on France successfully dividing NATO ... he is counting on the liberals in this country successfully undermining our national will to act against him ... what I don't understand is the number of citizens in this country, who are so willing to play into his hands ... of course war is ugly and no right minded person actually seeks it ... no one wants to see any member of our military die to defeat this madman ... it WOULD be nice if he were willing to play nice and peacefully co-exist, but that view is not reality any more than it was 60-70 years ago when it was Hitler we were hoping would play nice and peacefully co-exist.
And speaking for myself, I'm damn glad there's guys who can and will take action ... it IS about defending our freedom and our country and those who cannot see that are simply short-sighted.
