Veterans plan to exact action at polls

GOP-led House reneges on pledge to pass $3.2 billion for VA medical care
WASHINGTON -- Veterans are condemning House Republicans' failure to deliver a $3.2 billion boost for the Veterans Affairs Department that would have shrunk the agency's waiting list for medical care.

"A shameless betrayal" is how AMVETS sums it up.

"A moral outrage," the American Legion said.

"Abominable" is the word from the Non Commissioned Officers Association.

"Veterans have been pushed to the limits," said Joe Violante, national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans. "They're being lied to, and they're not tolerating it."

The broken promise -- the second time in a year Congress has reneged on a pledge to veterans -- has veterans vowing to remember at the ballot box.

"They're saying there has got to be a change made because if there isn't, we're never going to get what we're due," said Richard DeLong, a Vietnam veteran in Lafayette, La.

During April budget debates, the GOP-led House -- under criticism for not putting enough money into VA medical care -- approved a nonbinding budget that promised to increase VA medical spending by $1.8 billion more than the additional $1.4 billion President Bush had requested.

The money would have helped more than 132,000 veterans who wait six months or longer for their first VA doctor's appointment. Although the VA's medical budget has increased $8.3 billion in the past seven years, the agency's spending on each patient has decreased $624.

Last month, House Republican leadership, bowing to Bush administration pressure to curb spending and their own desire for hometown projects, cut the promised $1.8 billion.

Despite failed efforts to add the money back, the bill passed 316-109 with 59 Republicans and 50 Democrats opposing. Of the House Veterans Affairs Committee's 31 members, 20 voted against the bill, including committee Chairman Chris Smith, R-N.J., and top Democrat Lane Evans of Illinois.

The bill's next step is Senate consideration this fall.

"We got fooled, and we got whupped," said Richard F. Weidman, director of government relations for Vietnam Veterans of America. "We are not going to let individual members of this Congress forget this vote."

American Legion national commander Ronald F. Conley said the discouraging part is that the House GOP leadership warned Republicans that pet projects in the bill would be in jeopardy if they didn't vote yes.

"We have the money to pay for a statue of the Roman god Vulcan in Birmingham, Ala. We have money to pay for a bike trail in North Dakota. We have money to fund a Nevada helicopter company that performs Elvis impersonator weddings," Conley said. "And yet we have neither the heart nor the will to ensure that all United States veterans receive the medical care they earned and we owe them."

President Bush may hear more on the issue Tuesday when he is to speak to 13,000 delegates at the American Legion's national convention in St. Louis.

Congress' actions have many veterans talking about political consequences.

"Veterans more and more are beginning to sense a loss of faith and confidence in the administration," said Richard C. Schneider, director of veteran and state affairs for the Non Commissioned Officers Association. "They're no longer willing to be the quiet, accepting veterans that they have been in the past. I think they're actually going to hold some people accountable."

Veterans are talking about increasing turnout at the polls next year, veterans groups say.

what the hell do i know about the military anyway.

Again Rick, I see you here slamming Bush Administration and using the Veterans to do just that...

I proposed to you on the other pic forum to stand up and be heard with your jibberish slander and write your congresspersons and again here's the link to Make a Difference Voice your Opinion There Way!!!!

http://www.vfwdc.org/NLS/1legishomepage.htm 

And if you feel you cannot do this then Shut the Hell up because your no different the the turncoats closing their eye's to the Veterans

Hog

usahog: Your dedication to the Bush Administration appears to be based more on loyalty than accurate information. Your loyalty is certainly respected, but it looks like you are selectively reading material to conform to an opinion which agrees with your erroneous and preconceived notion of the current administration's alleged support of veterans.

Open your horizons. Read materials with an open mind, unfettered by preconceived notions.

Am I anti-Bush? No, of course not. At this moment I can tell you, without equivocation that the Republican controlled Congress has taken an anti-veterans stance. Whether President Bush has guided this posture, I don't know. What he has not done is publicly support programs to support veterans nor influence his Republican colleagues in the Congress to do so.

I raised $thousands for the George Bush campaign, supervised a volunteer phone bank to get him elected, walked miles door-to-door handing out Bush-Cheney literature, and, of course, voted for him.

I am a Vietnam Veteran, the former head of a state veterans' organization, have sat on national and state focus groups dealing with Agent Orange and Post Vietnam Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I wrote the legislation for my state's Vietnam Veteran's Bonus and guided it through the State legislature.

I am more than anecdotally familiar with which presidential administrations have benefitted our veterans. The current administration, though it may be the specific work of the Republican controlled Congress, has time and time, again, denied appropriate increases that are necessary for veterans health care. The cost of health care in the U.S. is increasing geometrically, while the increases proposed and/or granted by this administration for veterans' health are fractional.

Every veterans' organization...all who supported George Bush and a Republican Congress, have loudly voiced their disgust with the attitude of the current administration. Is the VFW wrong? Is the American Legion wrong? Is the Vietnam Vietnam Veterans of America wrong? Is the Disabled American Veterans wrong? Is the Korean War Veterans Association wrong?

From your response to the article Rick posted, it appears that every veterans' organization is wrong on this issue...

Only usahog is correct.

Maybe it's time for you to become far more familiar with what is really happening to veterans' health care and voice opinions based on fact.

Steve*R

If you're really not just blowing Internet smoke and are willing to take action and throw out politicians over this single $1.8 billion dollar issue in the proposed budget, good for you. I support you and any effort to throw politicians out. Change is good.

You need to start with the US Senate since they haven't approved it yet and won't until September. If they change anything at all, the whole thing goes to committee for resolution before it ever gets to Bush's desk. You can't wait until it is just a giant bill for which Bush gets to vote yes or no, you have to start writing your senators now. Keep in mind, every other special interest is doing the same thing so you'll need to be forceful and persistent. Its OK to want more and its OK to throw politicians out for not providing it. Remember, since only a few Democrats voted against it, you'll need to throw them out as well. Get the voting record, it is published.

Just for your reference, here is the press release from the US House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations from July 21, 2003. You can find this and much more at www.house.gov and www.senate.gov.


"Taking Care of Veterans:
Provides $27.2 in total budgetary resources for the Veterans Health Administration, a $1.4 billion increase over last year and approximately the President's request. For first time the bill categorizes funding for medical care by providing separate appropriations for the various components of the Veterans Health Administration budget. The largest component, $15.8 billion, funds medical services for veterans with service connected health needs. The second largest component, $5.1 billion, is for VA's medical administrative costs. The bill provides the following for the remainder of the Veteran's Health Administration budget:
$4 billion for VA medical facilities;
$2.2 billion for medical care for non-service connected veterans, offset by $1.5 billion from the Medical Care Collections Fund.
Does not contain the additional fees proposed in the President's budget.
Increases veterans medical and prosthetic research by $11 million over FY03, bring FY04 funding to $408 million.
Fully funds the Administration's request to expedite claims processing at the Veterans Benefits Administration bringing total FY04 funding is $1 billion.
Fully funds the President's request for the National Cemetery Administration, bringing FY04 funding to $144 million, $12 million above last year's level.
Fully funds the President's request for Veterans State Extended Care Facilities bringing total funding to $102 million, $3 million above last year's level."


Just for comparison purposes, here are a few other budgets as proposed:

Housing and Urban Development: $37 Billion
Environmental Protection Agency: $8.8 Billion
NASA: $15.5 Billion
National Park Operations: $1.6 Billion
Bureau of Land Management: $0.8 Billion
Indian Health Service: $2.9 Billion
Bureau of Indian Affairs: $2.5 Billion
Wildland Firefighting: $2.5 Billion
FBI: $4.6 Billion
Drug Enforcement Administration: $2.2 Billion
NOAA/National Weather Service: $3 Billion
Federal Judicial System: $5.2 Billion
Foreign Military Financing to Egypt: $1.3 Billion
Foreign Military Financing for Israel: $2.2 Billion
Economic Assistance to Israel: $0.5 Billion
Department of Energy: $22 Billion
Department of Agriculture: $17 Billion
Child Nutrition: $11 Billion
Nutrition-Women, Infant, Children: $4.5 Billion
Food Stamps: $27.7 Billion
Food and Drug Administration: $1.3 Billion
Labor, HHS, Education: $138 Billion
Homeland Security: $29 Billion
FAA: $14 Billion
Highways: $33 Billion
Defense Appropriations: $368 Billion
Further broken down as:
Missle Defense: $8.9 Billion
Special Operations: $4.6 Billion
Shipbuilding: $11.5 Billion
Chem and Bio Defense: $1.3 Billion
Personnel: $98 Billion (Includes 4.1% pay raise)
Operations and Maintenance: $115 Billion
Procurement: $74 Billion
Reseach and Development: $64 Billion
Defense Health Program: $15.6 Billion

Regardless of Republican or Democrat, putting together a Federal budget is not an easy task. Just move money from one bucket to another until everyone is happy! It is just a bigger version of the California budget game.

Now that you've become an activist, happy hunting and good luck with your lobbying efforts. I hope I've steered you in the right direction. Remember, every lobbying group wants more so the fight isn't easy. There is not a single lobby that will ever admit it got just enough funding and that they are content. That admission would put the lobby group out of existence. That includes every veterans association, police, fire, environmental, education, health care of all kinds, military, etc. Are these veterans associations wrong? No. Are these veterans associations right? No. They're trying to get what they can get just like everyone else. Remember, there are a lot of non-military and non-veterans who are getting burned by the rising costs of health care. This is not a veterans only issue. We are all sharing that burden, and lobbying to get the burden reduced.

By the way, we only got $48 million for Everglades restoration and we're not going to stand for it either.

HockeyDad: Thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully and comprehensively respond. Please do me the favor of citing resources when quoting budgetary figures; a URL is always helpful to me.
I appreciate it that you recognize that this is not a Republican versus Democrat issue. Veterans' health care should be a concern of all political stripes.

A significant point of your post says, and I'm paraphrasing very loosely, "Every group wants more money. They all have their hands out-stretched. Lobbyists work for their groups to get more money, so the lobbyists have jobs." I cannot dispute the premise for most special interest groups.

I believe that support for programs for our veterans, for the most part, transcends that analysis. Most of us who work for insuring that veterans get appropriate health care are not professional lobbyists and our only payment is seeing the waiting list for hearing aids and dental care shortened.

Above, you presented what was either a serious or tongue-in-cheek argument to throw the rascals out. I'm not sure where you really stand, or whether you are "blowing internet hot air" yourself. More important than throwing out politicians is getting appropriate funding right now.

The veteran's health care system is in serious need of repair. I want to know that the young men and women in our Armed Services, who are currently risking their lives, will have the care they need when they return home. And I want to know that thirty years after they return home, long after I've met my maker, that the VA health care system will be prepared to meet their needs.

All sources are cited in paragraph three.

http://www.house.gov  (US House of Representatives)
http://www.senate.gov  (US Senate)


Another interesting one is:

http://www.whitehouse.gov 

But NEVER, NEVER try:

http://www.whitehouse.com  (An adult site)

...More later.

HockeyDad: I am more than familiar with those general URLS. I need the specific citation; that which follows .gov/

The URLs you cite are the entry access points for every piece of legislation, committee, meeting, proposal, etc. in each respective House of Congress.

I did locate some of the information by doing a Lycos/Infoseek search on a line of your post.

Crediting sources is very important.

A few billion here, a few billion there.... before you know it, you're talking about real money!

This is the sad but true state of affairs in American politics. EVERYONE is standing around with their hand out. That does NOT include those of us who want more of our money BACK from the government. It's like a neutron star collapsing under its own weight. The bigger it gets, the more it sucks in, the more it sucks in the bigger it gets...

I firmly believe our federal government will be this country's undoing. It may happen in my lifetime, or my son’s, but it will happen.

The sad fact is the title of a Van Halen song “Everybody Wants Some”. People could give a rats ass what it does to you, me, the military, our deficit, or anything else, they just stand there with their hand out saying “GIMIE GIMIE GIMIE” like a petulant child at the candy store, they refuse a negative response, stomp their feet, and demand “MORE” and they’ll continue to do so until they get it.

If they don’t get it from the current bunch of thieves, they’ll get it from the next… I apologize for the fact that this loquacious rant paints pallor on the future of this once great nation. Every dog has its day, and we’ve had ours. This country is on a highway to hell, and it’s going down… And it's not the Republicans, or the Democrats, it's everyone, and the beast won't be satiated until it's had it's fill on you and me…

Tennis anyone? X

Robby

"I firmly believe our federal government will be this country's undoing. It may happen in my lifetime, or my son’s, but it will happen"

i agree with what you said. i wish it were not true, but it is getting closer to the end every year.

that doesn't mean i am not a patriot, that i dislke this country. it means i am sad. we could have been a contender.

Guess it's my Turn to Defend "MYSELF"??

I think Not, SteveR you do have quite a nice resume If I may say so myself... as far as my Veterans Affairs go.. I am a VFW Member,I am also a member of the American Legion. and Possibly soon to be a member of the DAV... I was ****in green when Vietnam was going on and wasn't even a glimmer in my daddy's eye when the Korean War was happening...
Nowhere in anything I have said did I say any of these Organizations Were "Wrong" in the way they feel the Bush Administration has been doing things... and never have I said I was Totally right on Issue's either.. what I did and have been posting is an opportunity for Rick to make a Voice that may be heard (and anyone else here for that matter) instead of whining about how Bush and the Administration is raping "We Veterans"and Military Members...
I do read the right stuff and do not take it out of context to what is being said... I have a Right as you do to post the way I see fit... and in my next post on this I will post the link you are asking Hockydad to post where it say's Bush's 27.2 billion he has proposed is being Cut and needing the Peoples Support to get it approved... that I think is what you are asking about?
it does amaze me to see one Veteran Attack another one's views on basically the same issues and feelings pretty much equal on the Issues also...I just did not add the Comments coming from the Organizations you listed.. why add fuel to Rick's Fire against Bush when it is like you said.. the Republican House and Senate that is Pulling the Strings on the Administrations proposals and we All know when these Bill's go out there are all these little things ADDed to them to make up a much more bigger picture for them not to get approved... So I Still Say to Rick and everyone else make your Voice Heard instead of Whining about it here on the Cigar Forum!!!!!!

SteveR, Thank You!!!

Just another Vet..
Hog

Sorry X, tennis was cut from the federal budget. It is a lean year.

Steve,

If you go to www.house.gov, there is a pull down menu near the top of the page for all committees' web sites.
For a broad overview of the budget, try the "Committee on the Budget" and then click "Congressional Budget Resolution" on the right side of the page, or:

http://www.house.gov/budget/congbudget.htm 

From there you'll see a variety of topics related to areas of the budget.

Click on "Veterans" for a summary or:

http://www.house.gov/budget/04brbveterans.htm 

One thing I failed to mention is the $27 billion number I cited for veterans was the discretionary portion, that which congress can change and generally is for health care. This is the portion at issue with wanting an extra $1.8 billion dollars. There is another mandatory portion for an additional $33 billion that congress can't touch. The mandatory portion is retired pay and pensions. All total $70 billion.

Now the press release will tell you the the discretionary portion of the veterans budget is increased by 10.7% over last year. That sounds great and I would strongly suspect it is one of the largest increases in the entire federal budget. That makes me think that this House of Representatives is very much pro-veterans. Then I take a step back and remember that the cost of health insurance for the miscellaneous company that I work for went up by 25% this year, like every year. That cost was passed on to me just like spiraling health care costs are getting passed on to veterans. Now I think we do need to get that $1.8 billion back in their budget just to stay even. We'll need it again next year. I hate when there are two sides to the story, absolutisms are so much easier.

That was the easy part. I think that with the issue taken in a vacuum, everyone in the country and all members of the senate and congress will be in favor of it. I can't recall an elected official taking a position of anti-veteran, pro-crime, anti-environment, or anti a lot of other issues. Now we have to find the money from someone else's budget. Now it just got tricky. I bet every department could make just as compelling an argument for an extra $2 billion, and I would agree with all but it might just not be practical.....That's where the 535 elected officials in the US House and US Senate have to make the hard choices.

We get to those elected officials through professional lobbying efforts. Granted, probably every organization out there looking out for a special interest has many wonderful volunteers doing a great job at something they feel passionate about. They also have professional lobbyists. That simply is how the game is played. I am a cash contributer to some of the very organizations that Rick's article mentioned so that they can go out and lobby for the extra $1.8 billion or even more. I've been a military brat much of my life and am a product of the military health care system. To give you an idea of where I stand, my father came home from a year in Vietnam with two Purple Hearts but, not disabled. Therefore, I contribute to the Disabled American Veterans. Not because my father was disabled, but because he wasn't. I was more fortunate than other kids.

To sum it up, I will not crucify the house, senate, or president over any single budget issue taken out of context of the entire federal budget. I am completely in favor of increasing the VA budget but I withhold final approval until I know what other budget was cut to pay for the increase. Saying the VA budget needs another $1.8 billion is the problem. Saying where the money is going to come from is the solution...Nobody is offering the solution. They're leaving it up to the 535 elected officials to figure it out.

As a mock solution, let's cut the $2.7 billion we give to Israel each year and transfer it to the VA. I would argue against this.

How about closing the National Park Service? That doesn't sound good.

How about a 25% cut to the EPA. It would be hard to sell that as pro-environment.


(All other sources can be found by using the same pulldown menu and selecting "Committee on Appropriations". Click on "News Releases" on the left side of the page and you'll get everything for the year or:

http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news.htm 

Every budget number number I cited can be found in these releases. Look for titles like "Full Committee Approves..." They are by department so there are a number of them)

Here is the HUD/VA and this like all the others only covers discretionary funding, not mandatory funds.

http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04vafull.htm 

Others:

http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04infloor.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04fopsub.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04cjsub.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04defull.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04agfull.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04lhfull.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04hsfull.htm 
http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/108_1/04hsfull.htm 

Disregard my posting the site.. Hockydad's got it covered!!! LoL... Nice work and Hats off to you Hockydad!!!

I can give you some more sites so you can see where some of the money's are deposited in Forgien (sp) Affairs??? LoL
thats another site unseen by the Public Eye!!!!

Hog

...Just a quick follow up.

Two thirds of the federal budget is tied up on mandatory funding requirements. Congress cannot touch these. The remaining one third is what is open for appropriations debates every year.

The bulk of the mandatory fundings are:

Transportation: $46 Billion
Health: $190 Billion
Medicare: $262 Billion
Income Security: $273 Billion
Social Security: $496 Billion

Also, in the previous cited budget numbers, I forgot to mention that Egypt gets another $575 million in economic assistance. That brings Egypt's total to $1.875 billion dollars. Rick want $1.8 billion for veterans. Maybe this could be the solution? I probably would argue against this one as well.

I think the whole aid to Egypt deal is just a big pyramid scheme...

Robby,

You are in denial.

HockeyDad, that wasn't very Pharaoh...

I'm not goinng to bite down on a Sinai pill over it.

Much appreciation to HockeyDad!!

Forgive my single issue perspective, here, but it's where the thread began, with Veterans' health care.

HockeyDad makes the valid point, that I also tried to make earlier. Medical costs are escalating at an astronomical rate. For Veterans' health care not to take a step backward, the appropriation increase must equal the rate of increase of health care costs, and that is just to retain the status quo.

The war in Iraq conceivably will continue for several years. There will be many veterans with service connected disabilities, both physical and mental. They deserve the best medical care this country can provide.

usahog

even if we disagree, you never have to defend youself. your take on anything is yours and is good as many and better then most.