jdrabinski
22 years ago
How many more chapters of lies and deception need be written by this administration? Hopefully, this is among the last...shame on this callous liars and deceivers.

John

Last week a quietly scathing report by the inspector general of the Environmental Protection Agency confirmed what some have long suspected: in the aftermath of the World Trade Center's collapse, the agency systematically misled New Yorkers about the risks the resulting air pollution posed to their health. And it did so under pressure from the White House.

The Bush administration has misled the public on many issues, from the budget outlook to the Iraqi threat. But this particular deception seems, at first sight, not just callous but gratuitous. It's only when you look back at budget politics in 2001 that you see the method in the administration's mendacity.

A draft E.P.A. report released last December conceded that 9/11 had led to huge emissions of pollutants. In particular, releases of dioxins — which are carcinogens and can also damage the nervous system and cause birth defects — created "likely the highest ambient concentrations that have ever been reported," up to 1,500 times normal levels. But the report concluded that because the outdoor air cleared after a couple of months, little harm had been done.

In fact, the main danger comes from toxic dust that seeped into buildings and remains in carpets, furniture and air ducts. According to a recent report in Salon, businesses that did environmental assessments of their own premises found alarming levels not just of dioxins but also of asbestos and other dangerous pollutants. So the most shocking revelation from the new report is that under White House direction, the E.P.A. suppressed warnings about indoor pollution. Scattered evidence suggests that as a result, hundreds of cleaning workers and thousands of residents may be suffering chronic health problems.

Why was crucial information withheld from the public? The report mentions "the desire to reopen Wall Street and national security concerns." Maybe — though the national security benefits of failing to remove toxic dust escape me. I suspect that there was another reason: budget politics.

Immediately after 9/11 there was a great national outpouring of sympathy for New York, and a natural inclination to provide generous help. President Bush quickly promised $20 billion, and everyone expected the federal government to assume the burden of additional security. Yet hard-line Republicans never wanted to help the stricken city. Indeed, according to an article by Michael Tomasky in New York magazine, Senators Phil Gramm and Don Nickles attempted to slash aid to New York within hours of Mr. Bush's promise.

Matters were patched up sufficiently so Mr. Bush could make his triumphant appearance at ground zero the next day. But then the backtracking began. By February 2002, only a fraction of the promised funds had been allocated — and Mitch Daniels, the White House budget director, accused New York's lawmakers of playing "money-grubbing games."

Why this stinginess? A source told Mr. Tomasky that "Gramm just doesn't like spending money. And Nickles . . . he's just anti-New York." That sums it up: even after 9/11, hard-line conservatives opposed any spending, no matter how justified, that wasn't on weapons or farm subsidies, while some people from America's "red states" just hate big-city folk.

What does all this have to do with toxic dust? Think how much harder it would have been to stiff New York if the public had understood the extent to which Lower Manhattan had become a hazardous waste site. I can't prove that was what administration officials were thinking, but otherwise their efforts to play down the risks seem incomprehensible.

In the end, New York seems to have gotten its $20 billion — barely. As for the additional help everyone expected: don't get me started. There wasn't a penny of federal aid for "first responders" — like those firefighters and police officers who cheered Mr. Bush at ground zero — until a few months ago, and much of it went to sparsely populated states. The federal government spends much more protecting the average resident of Wyoming from terrorists than it spends protecting the average resident of New York City.

All in all, the people running Washington, while eager to invoke 9/11 on behalf of whatever they feel like doing, have treated the city that bore the brunt of the actual attack very shabbily. In September 2004 the Republicans will hold their nominating convention in New York. Will New Yorkers take the occasion to remind them about how the city was lied to and shortchanged?
ajeroth
22 years ago
http://www.newbie.net/PearlHarbor/casualties.html 

Check that link out... How much did they get for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? September 11th was a tradgedy. But I don't think I owe them anything more than my pity at there loss. I hope the Government helps them with there rebuilding and presses on. I'm tired of the sentament in the United States that says somebody owes me something for just about anything bad that happens in my life. I am in no way discounting the loss of life and the horrific circumstances surrounding it. But enough is enough. You know what I want for the loss on the 11th. Blood. Retribution. Fire and damnation. Delivered from the business end of a B-57. Every bomb with a name on it. The name of a New Yorker. Every bomb made by my friend, the Ammo troop. Born and raised in New York city. And come on, how many people live in Wyoming compared to New York.
They can't prevent terrorism any better than a drive by shooting that kills an innocent child.

ajeroth
HockeyDad
22 years ago
John,

Did your cut and paste source article cite the actual report reference to the "quietly scathing report"? I couldn't find it here at the EPA web site related to the World Trade Center attack.(http://www.epa.gov/wtc/)

I did find the Dec 2002 Toxicology report:
http://www.epa.gov/nheerl/wtc/WTC_report_7b3i.pdf 

I did find the EPA releases on cleaning method studies:
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/confirmation_clean_study.htm 
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/backround_study.htm 

I was unable to find the "quietly scathing report" and it might be interesting reading, especially with all that suppression and cover up talk.
Robby
22 years ago
Surely he used a fair, balanced, unbiased, and impartial source. To do anything less would be scurrilous and self-serving. Professor?
Robby
22 years ago
Hey, what has the government done for me? What are they giving me? What do I get? Why do I always have to give and give for other to take How is that fair? Oh... I forgot, you're a Socialist, sorry, I won't get the answer I'm looking for out of you..
donutboy2000
22 years ago
Careful, you may hurt someone's feelings.
Homebrew
22 years ago
Don't see anything about white house intervention, I did find this.
http://www.epa.gov/oigearth/ereading_room/wtc/wtc_report_press_statement.htm 
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Homebrew
22 years ago
Here is a link, where the whole report can be downloaded, it's over 3 meg. In PDF format.
http://www.epa.gov/epahome/recentadditions.htm 

Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Homebrew
22 years ago
oooopppsss,
wrong url,
here it is.
http://www.epa.gov/oigearth/ereading_room/WTC_report_20030821.pdf 
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
jdrabinski
22 years ago
It's an NYT editorial (today's issue) based on an EPA report...the EPA is some sort of lefty propaganda machine? Huh? The report source, the EPA, is communist? You wish.

"Hey, what has the government done for me? What are they giving me? What do I get? Why do I always have to give and give for other to take How is that fair? Oh... I forgot, you're a Socialist, sorry, I won't get the answer I'm looking for out of you..."

Not sure why you have to be an ****, Robby. This surprised me. That last part is personal attack, for reasons I don't know. Feel free to explain. I didn't know I should keep you in my 'cbid enemies' dossier.

You get plenty:

Military protection
Education for free for your children and your community's children
Police
Fire Department
Paved roads
Street lights
Social security (if it's still around, you get MUCH more than you put in)
Unemployment insurance if you lose your job (hope you don't)
Criminal justice system to keep you safer than without it

and so on...

You get a hell of a lot, actually.

When 'other people' get things you don't get (welfare, subsidized school lunches, environmental cleanup at the WTC site, etc...very small percentage of the national budget, by the way, very small), you can, if you like, get the satisfaction that your national brothers and sisters are not being allowed to die and starve in the streets because of unemployment, personal tragedy, etc. Or, in the case of this story, safe from a toxic environment brought about in a national tragedy.

In a national tragedy, I think we all need to pitch in to make sure it doesn't claim more victims. Don't y'all see this? By turning their backs on this part of the catastrophe, the Bush administration made more victims for al-Quaeda.

Aren't you outraged? Aren't you embarrassed?

John
Robby
22 years ago
Sorry, not outraged, not embarrassed, and most certainly not "an a-hole" oh, btw 🙂 no remarks disparaging individuals (in the guidelines). I wasn't disparaging you. How is this a personal attack?? You openly and freely admit that you're a socialist? How is that disparaging??

And my concerns about "toxic dust" come from a long line of government programs gone awry... Protecting flies and beetles at the expense of the farmers, etc... There are radical environmentalists, and I'm "concerned" when we start talking about federal subsidies for steam cleaning people’s carpets in NYC... Then we’ll be sending our tax dollars to douche out the air conditioners in their cars, then we’ll be paying for q-tips to get the tread patterns in their Air Jordan’s… When does it stop? When we’re out of money? No problem, you’ll just raise taxes!! Now take back that a-hole remark Professor.
phenix007
22 years ago
What source could possibly be less credible than the New York Times...proven to have their own political agenda time and again...Do You recall the recent incident asking for negatively bias "insider" take on the Adm....the quote "if it isn't negative toward the administration we won't print it....Give me an unbiased ..creditable source and I'll listen with an open mind...NT Times absolutely requires 2nd source confirmation to have any interest on my part..
ajeroth
22 years ago
At least you said the "Bush Administration"... I don't think every little detail crosses the Presidents desk. He says make it happen and one of his minions does it. Period. If someone makes a mistake they will pay for it. But honestly what good would it have done to cause a panic attack in a city that large. Deny it but don't ignore it, has been a policy of every administration no matter what party. People were exposed to polutants the day it happend. At very high levels. It still has to be cleaned up now. So let them do it. But once again. Are you telling me that Uncle Sam has to foot every bill from that incident? Let the Govt. help New York clean up and move on. They do what they think is appropriate for the situation. Housing, food and employment for that many people would have been a logistical nightmare. The article said that the majority of the pollutants dissipated with time. So don't you think the rest might follow? Sure people ought to be careful after being notified. But they still have smog and air pollutants they breath by just living in that city. I'm not saying the city doesn't need help. But common sense should apply. And it doesn't when dealing with bottle fed outrage and nitpicking by someone trying to sell you something.
I.E. the newspaper.

ajeroth
HockeyDad
22 years ago
JD,

So you cut and paste a New York Times editorial without citing reference and claim that to be evidence of administration shame. Your source is an editorial... now that is a shame and a credibility problem! From an academic community standpoint, is that plagerism or just a copyright violation? From the NY Times standpoint, it is clearly a copyright violation.

Rather than post someone's editorial which makes the claim that the report is "scathing", what you should have done was post the link to the 165 page report which offers suggestions for how the EPA could improve their response to the worst terrorist attack in US history. Shockingly, it turns out the EPA response was not perfect. By posting the link to the actual report, people could then read it and reach their own conclusions on both the EPA and the NYC Department of Health roles and actions.

We really don't need people reading and reaching their own conclusions, do we?

Paragraph 1 from the EPA press release:

"This report, initiated by the OIG early in 2002, found that EPA staff did a commendable job reacting to the unprecedented disaster. Nonetheless, many problems were encountered and changes should be made so that EPA can better respond to future disasters."

Commendable job----Absolutely scathing! I bet the EPA
collectively won't be able to sit down for weeks after being ripped a new one like that!

Homebrew, thanks for posting the link. It really is interesting reading.
funjohnny19
22 years ago
"In fact, the main danger comes from toxic dust that seeped into buildings and remains in carpets, furniture and air ducts. According to a recent report in Salon, businesses that did environmental assessments of their own premises found alarming levels not just of dioxins but also of asbestos and other dangerous pollutants."

---------
I'm an environmental engineer. I've seen boatloads of environmental assessments, and just about every single indoor air quality test I've ever seen shows alarming levels of something. Whether it's asbestos, particulate matter, or whatever....just about every building is 'sick' in one way or the other.

Given the fact that these tests were taken after 9/11, it's no surprise that there were high levels of all these things!! I read the EPA report on The Toxicological Effects of Fine Particulate Matter Derived from the Destruction of the World Trade Center. The article is correct - It doesn't specifically state the effects on indoor air quality. But you know what?!?? It doesn't specifically state the effects on OUTDOOR air quality either!! Read the executive summary. Very important line - "This research is informative, but it is of limited scope, with a focus on the toxicological effects of a fine fraction of WTC dust from a single exposure. A more complete characterization of potential health effects would include consideration of other size fractions, repeated exposures, additional doses and endpoints, and responses in species or strains of differing sensitivity. It was not possible to assess these other considerations in the present study."

This piece states that the EPA suppressed information about indoor air pollution........

Doesn't sound like they hid anything. The did exactly as they intended. Nothing seems to be 'hidden'.

So why wasn't indoor air quality tested? You know what?? IT WAS!! It was done by consciencious building owners who had the right mind to pay for an assessment. It says that right in the article. So what if their building is found to be contaminated?? Stand in line and wait, unfortunately. Clean-up operations for hazardous waste sites are done on a case-by-case basis. They are too costly to do any other way. My guess is that the conditions of the building aren't any worse today than they were before 9/11. They weren't hazardous waste sites at all. If you can walk in the building, without any equipment, it's not hazardous enough. Dioxins?? I don't know - I'd like to see the test results.

And btw - the best way to eliminate dioxins is through incineration. I don't think building owners want to heat their carpets, furniture and air ducts to 1000+ degrees F, to eliminate the 'high' levels of dioxins. And I don't think they want the government to pay for them to do it either.

A totally politic article - and it uses the worst tragedy in modern American history as it's basis. Sad stuff.

Funjohnny19
HockeyDad
22 years ago
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/shuttle/CAIB.report.pdf 

You want scathing. This is the link to the 10 mb 248 page Columbia Accident Investigation Board report.
jdrabinski
22 years ago
Robby, misunderstanding. Remark duly taken back. We put money into saving and protecting lives. The examples you trot out, from out of nowhere and without precedent (classic slippery slope fallacy), have nothing to do with what this article is pointing out.

Phenix, the NYT is wholly credible. The editorial writer is a very respected journalist, not some young buck trying to make a name for himself.

Ajeroth, it was a national tragedy. We as a nation need to step up and help out. Remember how much this country got behind NYC after 11 September? It appears that has faded very, very quickly. Sadly, the tragedy and its effects don't fade so fast. I say Bush administration, but I do mean BUSH HIMSELF. If his underlings do everything, what exactly is he responsible for? His apologists make him out to be an idiot who can't understand what is happening around him and isn't responsible for any of it...damn, we may have common ground THERE. Basic principle of leadership: you are responsible for what your subordinates do. This moron GW has taken passing the buck to new levels...

HockeyDad, is this your first visit here? If copy/paste is copyright infringement, there'll be a lot of cbidders in jail! Please. It is an outrage, yes, that people were/are at such risk when something could have been done, if only the will and concern was there. But it wasn't because, let's be honest here, the Bush people want to score rhetorical points re: 11 September to accomplish goals long held (read up on the neo-con plans for Iraq...). Why are you surprised that an EPA report is bland and uneventful sounding? The reality behind the boring words is pretty mean and bleak.

Funjohnny, it is the Bush people who are using a tragedy for their own purposes, not this article. This article exposes how Bush was about rhetoric re: 11 Sept., not genuinely helping victims. This is one example among many.

John
HockeyDad
22 years ago
John,

You've staked your claim on being a college professor so you should be fully aware of copyrights and plagerism. The actions of other cbidders regarding cut and paste do not translate to a right for you to do the same, especially when it involves copying another professor's op-ed in its entirety without giving any credit to the author or the publication.

If you wished to read the review of the EPA's actions and write something to further advance your political agenda, you should have done so rather than copy Professor Paul Krugman's op-ed piece. The New York Times will accept an op-ed from anyone so you could have even got it published just like anyone else.

The actual author of the op-ed piece has used a letter-to-the-editor as the means for capitalizing on the 9-11-01 tragedy to advance the political agenda of those seeking to defeat Bush in the upcoming election. You have "gravytrained" on his work and re-published the letter-to-the-editor and attempted to give it credibility as an expose article from the NYT. It is not an article of any kind, it is a op-ed letter-to-the-editor containing one person's opinion without any requirement for basis in fact. You misrepresent what it is to suit your agenda.

Read the EPA report, form your own opinions.

At least the tragedy of 9-11-01 is not forgotten, although it appears to be remembered for all the wrong reasons. Now it is part of the "Anybody but Bush Campaign 2004".

It is unfortunate that politics have deteriorated to this level. The downhill spiral started during the Clinton presidency and has continued into the Bush presidency and picked up speed. The Republicans started it, the Democrats have taken it to new heights, and the Democratic Party is becoming marginalized.
tailgater
22 years ago
Sure.
Let's close lower Manhattan until every last trace of pollutant is removed.

Very naive.

Just the other day, one of my daughters asked me why I had to go to work.
Her innocence reflects her age.

How old are you?
jdrabinski
22 years ago
HockeyDad, are you REALLY concerned with copyright issues, or are you just fond of non-sequiturs? Seems to me an accurate portrayal of the EPA report and Bush's non-action in response to it. So I posted the editorial. Next time, for your satisfaction, I will provide full Chicago Manual of Style citation following the post.

Tailgater, what are you talking about? I think you mean that people should go to work no matter what. When the air knowingly has high level of toxins? You really believe that? I doubt it.

Explain what you are talking about with your daughter...I'm baffled at the story...makes me feel like I'm stoned and trying to read Alice in Wonderland.

John
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