This is a cut and paste from another site. Please double check to make sure you get the right Congresman for your district:

YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ORDER CIGARS BY MAIL IN THE NEAR FUTURE!

As early as tomorrow, the House Judiciary committee will be considering House Bill HR2824. In fact, this bill is listed to be considered for mark up tomorrow, Wednesday, January 21, 2004 at 10AM on their website at:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary 

Why is this important? Because its sister bill, S1177, which has already passed in the Senate eliminates your right to order cigars by mail!

The House Bill #HR2824 does NOT presently contain the "cigar" and "all tobacco products" language as contained within the Senate bill. Neither the Senate bill, nor the House bill have anything to do with cigars, it is all about combating cigarette counterfieting, but that didn't stop someone in the Senate from sneaking in the cigar related references that were added at the very last moment. If it could happen in the Senate, it definitely could happen again in the House...

So it is critical that we let the House Judiciary Committee know to NOT add "cigars” and “all other tobacco products” provisions to their House Bill HR2824 as were added to the Senate Bill at the last moment. Because if they do, "our goose is cooked”, and mail order cigars will become illegal!

Below is a list of the Congressmen on the House Judiciary Committee who should understand our plea to keep cigars and non-specific "tobacco product" references out of HR2824.

They are scheduled to consider this bill tomorrow, so we are asking everyone that does not want their right to receive cigars via mail order to contact the House Judiciary Members listed below immediately.

It is critical that all cigar smokers e-mail, phone, or fax these representatives and request that "cigars" and "all other tobacco products" NOT BE ADDED TO HR2824.

House Judiciary Committee

Spencer Bachus, Alabama
http://www.house.gov/bachus 

Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee
http://www.house.gov/blackburn 

Rick Boucher, Virginia
[email protected]
http://www.house.gov/boucher 

John Carter, Texas
http://www.house.gov/carter 

Steve Chabot, Ohio
http://www.house.gov/chabot 

Howard Coble, North Carolina
http://www.house.gov/coble 
[email protected]

Tom Feeney, Florida
http://www.house.gov/feeney 
[email protected]

Jeff Flake, Arizona
http://www.house.gov/flake 
[email protected]

J. Randy Forbes, Virginia
http://www.house.gov/forbes 

Bob Goodlatte, Virginia
http://www.house.gov/goodlatte 
[email protected]

Mark Green, Wisconsin
http://www.house.gov/markgreen 
[email protected]

Melissa Hart, Pennsylvania
http://www.house.gov/hart 

John Hostettler, Indiana
http://www.house.gov/hostettler/ 
[email protected]

Henry Hyde, Illinois
http://www.house.gov/hyde 

William L. Jenkins, Tennessee
http://www.house.gov/jenkins 

Ric Keller, Florida
http://keller.house.gov 

Steve King, Iowa
http://www.house.gov/steveking 

Mike Pence, Indiana
http://mikepence.house.gov 
[email protected]

Robert C. "Bobby" Scott, Virginia
http://www.house.gov/scott 
[email protected]

F. James Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin
http://www.house.gov/sensenbrenner 
[email protected]

Lamar Smith, Texas
http://lamarsmith.house.gov 
[email protected]

Melvin L. Watt, North Carolina
http://www.house.gov/watt 
[email protected]


Below is a form message you may want to copy and send. Please feel free to write your own, we just wanted to make this as simple as possible. Whatever you do, please make it fast! We cigar smokers are running out of time and we need to make our voices heard!!!


======================

The Honorable _________________
United States House of Representatives
Washington, D.C. 20515


Dear Congressman:

On December 9, 2003, the U.S. Senate cut a last minute deal to ban all sales of cigars through the U.S. mail. This provision was quietly slipped into the cigarette anti-counterfeiting bill (S.1177), even though the rest of the bill had nothing to do with cigars. The House Judiciary Committee will soon consider its version (H.R.2824) of the same bill.

I need you to keep cigars out of this bill! There is not a counterfeit cigar problem in this country. There is not a youth cigar smoking problem in this country. This is another example of a big government solution in search of a problem that does not exist. Please do the right thing and don’t let the federal government tamper with my right to receive legal cigars through the mail.



Sincerely,

=====================

Thank You,

Well i tried to wright my congressmen an email, but who would have thought it would have been so difficult. It said i live in the wrong district of illinois!

I just read both bills... I didn't find any reference to cigars at all in either one. The HR2824 bill has the language of "Cigerettes and smokless tobacco". The 1177 Bill also has a specific reference to Cigerettes. Am I wrong here? Unless the cigar references are hidden in one of the extra references embedded in both I don't see the relation. I think the tax on internet tobacco sales is BS on the whole. If they tax tobacco what says they won't start taxing everything else you get a deal on by buying out of state? If you want to read 1177 go here...

http://www.wefightforyourrights.com/s1177.pdf 

ajeroth

ajeroth:
Read the other thread on this topic and look at the excerpted language from specific sections of the bill. I think by now the consensus opinion by a lot of people is that cigars are caught up in this and internet purchase will become illegal if passed.

and this isn't some "i'll do it next week" thing. write to them NOW. yes, "cigars" is imbedded stealthily in there, and your right to get cigars shipped to you via ANYTHING (USPS, brown truck, whatever) could be disappeared as soon as TOMORROW.

It is going to be a long drive from Seattle to NC and PA. Maybe an opportunity for a cross-country mobile herf. Anybody interested 🙂

Turnberry... I am right on your way out east 😉

The Smelly/Turnberry golf road-trip for cigars......count me in!!!

Well I still say it doesn't apply. This site is with the Library of Congress...

http://thomas.loc.gov/ 

In the top type in HR2824. When it comes up search the page for "Cigar" it doesn't hit. And there is a section that tells you that there are no ammendments.

ajeroth

... it's all hyperbole.

It just isn't going to happen ...

Slim:
I hope you are right but there seems to be a great deal of angst going on amongst the major internet vendors today. What's your reasoning on why this is not likely to pass and be signed into law?

thanks Penguin let's flood those IL SOBs.

turnberry --- it's just a gut feeling, as they have been talking about this for a very long time.

Too much at stake here ... and a lot of $$$ are at stake for the economy and the individual states commerce.

Slim:
Totally agree with you that there are a lot of $$$ at stake with this. My concern is that there is a collective governmental thought process that the total pot of money can get bigger if they can figure out a way to capture the tobacco tax and sales tax dollars which currently slip through the states' systems via internet sales.

And if they can do that without compromising the overall business flow of the major tobacco manufacturers so much the better. As much as certain individual states seem hell bent to eliminate smoking the ironic fact is that many of them are at great risk of business failures by big tobacco.

Many of them have securitized the stream of future payments to the states under the master tobacco settlement agreement several years ago into very large financings. And then they have used the proceeds of those financings, in most cases, for everything other than what they were intended (health issues related to tobacco use). They have used the funds to fill budget deficits and fund other programs or capital projects. All on the assumption that the future tobacco industry payments will continue. If big tobacco fails to make those payments the states are left holding a big-time bag for debt service on very large amounts of debt.

So the art form here is to look like they are anti-smoking, not really kill big tobacco and optimize related tax revenues. So yes it is all about money. And they want what we are not currently paying. Mistakenly, IMHO, they do not believe that significantly increasing the cost of use to the consumers will negatively impact consumption and reduce taxes. I guess we shall see.

Since everyone is against this bill, I'll make the argument nobody wants to hear. Regardless of your letters and complaints to your elected officials, in some shape or form, this bill will pass. I can't see any reason why cigars won't be included since it is just another souce of tobacco revenue.

My prediction: Unanimous vote for passage in both the House and Senate.

The reason I say it will be unanimous in both chambers is the goal of this bill is to capture tax revenue that has been eluding the system. All the politicians want the revenue. The laws on interstate tobacco have been in place for many years. These laws were to prevent bootlegging cigarettes from low tax states to high tax states. The old law didn't mention smokeless tobacco or cigars and its enforcement ability wasn't too good.

Under the Senate bill's changes to the old law, interstate sales will still be permitted. The seller will face much more detailed reporting requirements and will need to escrow tobacco taxes for each state. Otherwise, they will face much stiffer penalties than under the original law. The online retailer will have to take into consideration this increased overhead plus their price competitiveness may vanish once they have to tack on your state's tobacco tax onto your purchase and it just might not be worth the effort to keep the business going. This will be great for local retailers and convenience stores.

Keeping in mind that the tobacco taxes have been there all along in each state, we've just been circumventing them through mail order and the internet. All this bill is doing is closing a tax loophole. If you dig a little into your state tobacco tax laws, you may even find that you've been required all along to voluntarily pay the tobacco tax for mail order and internet purchases but there simply was no enforcement. This is exactly what is going on with state sales taxes and their battle with the Feds over collection. Every state wants sales tax for internet purchases and the Feds have blocked it for now.

The only real question is when the House is done with the bill, will it match the Senate's version or will it go to joint committee for clean up. Either way, when it comes to the floor of the House and maybe again at the Senate, it passes unanimously.

If they don't include cigars in the final law, they're idiots. Since they are politicians, being idiots is a possibility. Maybe a couple cigar smokers among them will change it but they probably only smoke cuban cigars so they won't care! There is hope. By the way, the Senate bill passed as a unanimous consent.

Remember, if you don't like it, quit smoking. That's the message from all tobacco related legislation.

Fred you driving ??? I'm in but don't tell the "4 little People" Rob

I want to go on record as saying this is not, repeat NOT, a time for overbidding!

(I'm trying to win some stuff cheap!)

It just ain't goin' to happen ...

That's my story (I'n in denial) and I'm sticking to it ... LOL!

well, i read the pieces in question. cigars ARE mentioned flat-out. i wrote my congressional, and now it's que sera' sera' from there.

and a big YES to herfin' with any of you who make it over here to wilmington, NC.

Slim:
Man would I like you to be right on this one!